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Nathalie Peregrine's Personal Meeting Room - Shared screen with speaker view
Terri Agnew
37:51
Welcome to the RPMs Sub Team for Trademark Claims Data Review call on Wednesday, 15 May 2019 at 17:00 UTC for 60 minutes.
mary.wong
39:43
The Sub Team will have an opportunity to review the draft text for all proposed Answers and Preliminary Recommendations at the end of your deliberations.
Ariel Liang
40:19
Q5 starting from page 20
Griffin Barnett
40:41
No longer hearing Roger....
Griffin Barnett
40:46
And he;s back
Griffin Barnett
42:08
I agree with Kristine
mary.wong
42:12
@Kristine, yes that is correct.
Griffin Barnett
42:27
Should remain a mandatory minimum floor of 90 day period, with the possibility for voluntary extensions by registries
Griffin Barnett
43:19
Many ROs would not want a TM claims period... but that isn't the question
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
43:30
We have not decided that its sunrise OR claims.
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
43:47
But to the extent that Claims exists, I think my answer is still the same.
Griffin Barnett
45:48
Agree with Susan
Griffin Barnett
46:59
Pasting from the data collection table (from my earlier submission on this question form the data anlaysis exercise): The survey responses for Ry/Rr also indicated there would basically be no change in terms of impact on cybersquatting, operating cost, technical burden, or customer understanding if Claims period was shortened or lengthened.[Ry/Rr C-F59-66].The data also suggest that a shorter Claims period would increase cybersquatting, while a longer period would decrease it. Some Ry said eliminating Claims would have no impact on cybersquatting rates, but the rationale for this claim is not provided in the data. [Ry Q28].Ultimately, these data suggest that Claims period should remain uniform across gTLD types (being mandatory and the same mandatory minimum duration), and may support lengthening the period to enhance its purpose of deterring cybersquatting, given data suggesting that (a) some Ry are already extending the period, and (b) the impact on cost/technical burdens to Ry/Rr would be minimal.
Rebecca Tushnet
47:27
Lowest common denominator: where there is a Claims period, the policy should require 90 days; that's it.
mary.wong
48:27
Hand up from staff.
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
50:10
ALP and QLP aren't related in any way to claims.
Griffin Barnett
50:11
The issues Kathy is discussing right now relates really to Sunrise issues
Griffin Barnett
50:24
Not sure why we are discussing it now, in connection with Q5 before us
Griffin Barnett
50:30
on Claims
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
50:50
what Kathy just read supports the statement that we haven't discuss/decided on "or" yet.
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
50:59
So I think Rebecca's summary is right.
Griffin Barnett
50:59
Question of continued mandatory Sunrise AND Claims is a different issue
Ariel Liang
51:52
As Mary mentioned, there may be some overlap with Claims Q2(c) Should the Claims period be mandatory?
Kathy Kleiman
52:00
Mary there is not consensus support for that as shown in this discussion.
Griffin Barnett
52:12
It sounds lke Rebecca's summary in chat above, and the summary just given by Mary is more or less accurate in terms of where we are at on Q5
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
52:50
+1 Griffin
Kathy Kleiman
53:13
I think Mary's summary is inconsistent with Rebecca's summary.
mary.wong
53:20
@Kathy, that’s why we mentioned it - to make sure that there is “wide support” (as is required by the agreed process) for that recommendation.
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
57:55
To be clear, ROs and RRs find claims a PITA but a lot of the Applicant Guidebook is a PITA. If claims and sunrise are serving their intended purpose, then they should stay.
Rebecca Tushnet
57:56
"mandatory" is the key word here that is inconsistent with some of the discussion about special business models
Rebecca Tushnet
58:26
That's what I was trying to avoid in my lowest common denominator approach and then if we want we can address what special business models might be
mary.wong
59:37
@Rebecca, the “mandatory” standard seems to relate to a “mandatory minimum” of no less than 90 days.
Griffin Barnett
01:01:17
For what possible models would TM claims be inappropriate? Sure, ROs and RRs might not want to have to run Claims, but that is not the point
Griffin Barnett
01:01:39
+1 Kristine
Kathy Kleiman
01:01:51
Q2(d) Answer: Some TLDs should be exempt from the Claims RPM.
Kathy Kleiman
01:01:59
Quote from our own summary table.
Griffin Barnett
01:02:15
A summary of.... a response from some ROs or Rrs?
Susan Payne
01:02:32
hear hear Kristine
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:03:40
@Kathy: re Q2(d) Answer: Some TLDs should be exempt from the Claims RPM.Yes....BRANDs.
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:03:52
Yes Roger.
Griffin Barnett
01:03:54
That sounds accurate to me Roger
Susan Payne
01:03:54
yes
Rebecca Tushnet
01:03:56
works for me
Kathy Kleiman
01:03:56
Yes
Ariel Liang
01:04:39
@Kathy - please note the summary table text you quoted for Q2(d) were dated back to 16 April. Staff have been keeping up with the discussions and capturing proposed answers/preliminary recommendations along the way. As noted earlier, we will provide a single doc at the end of the deliberation for the Sub Team to review and identify inaccuracy/gaps.
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:04:59
@Greg, I think that would be a f/u question to the recommendation.
Griffin Barnett
01:05:27
Good point Greg
Kathy Kleiman
01:05:46
Lots documented concerns with Geos
mary.wong
01:05:47
@Greg, yes - what the staff captured from the Sub Team discussions from the past few weeks is flexibility for some ROs and brands that can demonstrate they don’t need it.
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:06:08
@Kathy. NO documented concerns with geos for CLAIMS.
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:06:16
The documented concerns are with sunrise.
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:06:26
A claims notice is simply a notice. It doens't DO Anything.
Greg Shatan
01:06:31
Are there other TLDs that have no third-party registrants, aside from .brands?
Susan Payne
01:06:46
@Kathy the "lots of documented concerns by geos" are not about Claims they are about Sunrise.
Susan Payne
01:07:02
and there aren't Lots
Susan Payne
01:07:11
there were at best 2 people
Griffin Barnett
01:07:17
Agree with Kristine and Susan re the geoTLDs issue
Griffin Barnett
01:07:25
Not a Claims issue
Susan Payne
01:07:37
for who we have at least 2 specific Qs in the Sunrise group
mary.wong
01:08:55
Yes, “highly regulated” seems to be the usual phrase (including by the GAC and the CCT-RT).
Kathy Kleiman
01:09:18
+1 Kristine
Susan Payne
01:09:27
excellent idea Kristine
Rebecca Tushnet
01:09:34
+1 Kristine
Griffin Barnett
01:09:59
I could support Kristine's suggest approach, although I'm not sure I am convinced about the "regulated" TLDs being reasonable to exempt from CLaims
Griffin Barnett
01:10:24
They are checking for other credentials but may not be doing any kind of TM due diligence
Griffin Barnett
01:10:36
Not saying it might not be reasonable, but worth further thought
Griffin Barnett
01:10:41
IMO
Susan Payne
01:10:53
@Griffin, agree, but I think it's reasonable question for the initial report. there could be some where they are checking for a TM
Susan Payne
01:11:06
Tickets did at the outset I believce
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:11:09
@Griffin. I do tend to agree mostly because the claims notice is really just a notice and it's not preventing any action.
Susan Payne
01:11:26
Although there were other criteria to get a tickets name without a TM
Griffin Barnett
01:11:32
@Susan, Kristine - I think those are fair points
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:12:29
no apology needed...we knew what we signed up for. :)
Rebecca Tushnet
01:16:44
It sounds like the data relating to Claims are absent at this point.
Kathy Kleiman
01:16:55
:-)
Rebecca Tushnet
01:16:57
If it's just hypothetical, it doesn't seem to meet our standards.
Griffin Barnett
01:16:58
I am generally supportive of at least putting this proposal to public comment for further feedback
Terri Agnew
01:17:37
To raise your hand, make sure to active the chat window and raise hand is under the listed names.
Terri Agnew
01:18:00
**update activate the participant window (not chat) to raise hand
Kathy Kleiman
01:18:29
Agree with Roger
Griffin Barnett
01:18:46
I also tend to agree this is mostly relevant to Sunrise rather than CLaims
Lori Schulman
01:19:18
Yes, this is more about Sunrise and less about claims. However, to the extent it may apply to claims, I don't see the harm in the PIC as a general principle.
Lori Schulman
01:20:27
finally found the hand. not intuitive but I will get used to it
Rebecca Tushnet
01:20:51
I appreciate Susan's measured approach, but if we're trying to fix things then nothing in Claims needs fixing even if we believe that there is a "fair price" for Sunrise.
julie.hedlund
01:21:00
@All: Time check — call will end at 5 minutes to the top of the hour to allow a transition to the next call.
Kathy Kleiman
01:22:10
+1 Kristine
Griffin Barnett
01:22:45
I guess I don't really care what the mechanism is as long as the behavior it is designed to address is captured in some way
Griffin Barnett
01:22:53
PIC, PDDRP, SDRP.... etc etc
Griffin Barnett
01:23:01
(or a general RA amendment) etc.
Kathy Kleiman
01:23:32
I also agree with Susan that this is somewhat out of scope for TM Claims...
Susan Payne
01:23:42
Interestng suggestion Kristine
Kathy Kleiman
01:23:56
Did we reach the end of our TM Claims questions?
Griffin Barnett
01:24:34
2025...lord I hope not
Griffin Barnett
01:24:55
We'll probably still be working on UDRP review then lol
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:25:04
Griffin!!!
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:25:11
:O
Griffin Barnett
01:25:17
:*****(
Griffin Barnett
01:25:24
(hopefully not)
Kathy Kleiman
01:25:34
Tx Roger!
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:25:38
Let me be clear...*I* will not. :)
Lori Schulman
01:25:38
OMG. If we reopen the PDDRP are we opening more issues than the PIC seeks to resolve?
Griffin Barnett
01:25:41
Thanks Roger and all
Lori Schulman
01:25:53
The OMG was about the 2025 comment not the PIC]
Griffin Barnett
01:26:01
I just got word that I need to be on another call at 2, so may not be able to make SUnrise call, or might join late
Lori Schulman
01:26:01
thansk
Griffin Barnett
01:26:03
FYI