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Terri Agnew's Personal Meeting Room
Vrikson Acosta
36:41
Hello everyone
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
39:30
Were here to assist as required :-)
Katrin Ohlmer
41:35
Sorry for being late, had technical issues
Alan Greenberg
43:17
Sorry to be late.
Katrin Ohlmer
43:23
Is there a list of "de-facto" official languages?
Annebeth Lange
44:33
@Katrin, not so far, as far as I know
Alan Greenberg
44:38
is "hag" instead of "haag" intentional or a typo?
Katrin Ohlmer
44:46
hag -> Haag
Alan Greenberg
45:02
so a typo?
David McAuley (Verisign)
45:04
please post link to doc on screen - i must have missed it
Katrin Ohlmer
45:11
yes, a typo
Emily Barabas
47:41
david, the text is in the agenda
jaap
47:42
All IDN names are xn—gibberish on the wire, throwing this in the discussion is just making things just confusing
jaap
48:52
A space is allowed according to the protocol, however it is likely to confuse all alicatins out there
David McAuley (Verisign)
50:15
Thanks Emily for download - it was not in agenda that I saw - there was reference to background docs but no link
Emily Barabas
51:55
Hi David — agenda sent via email. Also now available here: https://community.icann.org/x/fYqjBg
Katrin Ohlmer
53:37
@jaap: do you have a proposal how to word in, then?
Alan Greenberg
54:04
Elimination of spaces or preplacement with a dash is the current standard for implementing copyrights and it is reasonable to extend it here if that was not already part of the last applicant guidebook.
Alan Greenberg
54:18
preplacement = replacement
Annebeth Lange
55:00
@ Alan; Makes sense. To make it understandable for all, we have to write this in “plain English”. It seems now that we are making it more complicated than necessary.
Katrin Ohlmer
55:13
to my knowlegde it has not been part of the past AGB, that is the reason why we brought it up
Steve Chan
57:12
By adding this additional provision, this would presumably extend protections to these additional terms. Is that the intention? Or to allow a local group to choose the most appropriate term for them? As mentioned in my email just prior to this meeting, it may be helpful to understand the underlying issue and thus, what you’re trying to solve.
Jaap Akkerhuis
58:16
Technical nit: Not all spaces are ascii (unicode has a lot of non-ascii spaces).
Abdulkarim Oloyede
58:35
I agree @Nkem
Katrin Ohlmer
59:06
It is less about adding protections but rather giving citizens a sensible option to indentify with a "speaking" city name instead of xn--........
David McAuley (Verisign)
01:00:01
please mute if not speaking
Annebeth Lange
01:00:03
Someone has background noise here, please put on mute when not talking
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:01:32
plain language use here is it seems the key
Annebeth Lange
01:02:37
@Alan, I agree. We must not make this more complicated than necessary.
Jeff Neuman
01:02:41
@Alan - Yes, it point to the ASCII characters that are not recognized
Jeff Neuman
01:03:11
Like the spaec, &, (, etc.
Jeff Neuman
01:03:17
space
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:03:21
Perhaps we also need to propose a City name example or to in addition to referenceing as Alan outlines?
Katrin Ohlmer
01:03:30
2.2.1.4.2.
Katrin Ohlmer
01:03:31
An application for any string that is arepresentation, in any language, of the capital cityname of any country or territory listed in the ISO3166-1 standard.
Emily Barabas
01:03:52
katrin, this proposal only addresses translations for capital city names, correct?
Katrin Ohlmer
01:04:00
I cannot identify that transpositions of capital city names are included.
Katrin Ohlmer
01:04:09
@emily, correct!
Emily Barabas
01:04:16
not the reservation of country and territory names?
Emily Barabas
01:04:31
thanks for confirming
Katrin Ohlmer
01:04:39
yes, our porposal is just about capital city names
Christopher Wilkinson
01:04:56
There are TMs with bizarre diacritics which do not necessarily conform to any language!!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:05:00
That was my understanding ... Thanks @Katrin
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:06:01
:-)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:06:44
Perfect @Jaap
Annebeth Lange
01:07:45
@Jaap, thanks, very clear
Annebeth Lange
01:08:08
@Christopher, understandable point of view
Christopher Wilkinson
01:10:09
No further comments. Cw
Jeff Neuman
01:14:04
So, getting back to old topic, Section 6.1.5 of the TMCH Document described how certain characters are treated for urposes of "exact match"
Jeff Neuman
01:14:06
https://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/agb/trademark-clearinghouse-04jun12-en.pdf
Jeff Neuman
01:14:37
"purposes"
Marita Moll
01:15:36
I thought there was already protection for official languages of the country in questions -- not just UN languages.
Annebeth Lange
01:16:36
@ Marita, today ALL LANGUAGES are protected
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:16:41
Well articulated Javier... Thanks
Katrin Ohlmer
01:16:43
@Jeff: 6.1.5. does not regulate how to deal with acceents and other special characters
Emily Barabas
01:16:45
@marita, the current standard is that the string is not available if it is a country or territory names or a translation of these names in any language
Marita Moll
01:17:33
Annabeth's explanation was good -- it sounds like a reasonable compromise.
Jeff Neuman
01:17:37
@Katrin - Sure it does
Jeff Neuman
01:18:06
It says if it is not one of the special characters listed, then it is either ommitted, dropped, or replaced with a hyphen or underscore
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:18:12
Indeed @Susan
Annebeth Lange
01:18:29
It was me, Javier, but you said what I wanted to say
Annebeth Lange
01:19:06
I wonder if I should start to speak Norwegian
Katrin Ohlmer
01:19:14
@Jeff - exactly, but an "à" woudl not be replaced by "a"
Bram Fudzulani
01:19:40
hearing French on English Channel
Susan Payne
01:19:46
I hope we are using the timer here
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:20:00
If we were in an ALAC call we would have FR and ES + real time interpretation of course ;-)
Bram Fudzulani
01:20:19
😀
Jeff Neuman
01:20:27
@Katrin - That is what ommitted means....in other words a character with an accent is just the characters
Katrin Ohlmer
01:20:47
@jeff - ok, thanks!
Katrin Ohlmer
01:21:03
so we could use this language in the AGB
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:21:28
There are 3rd party lists of promarily used or official Langiuages used in listed Countries
Susan Payne
01:23:05
oh for goodness sake I think we can assume countries know what their languages are. We're not dictating that!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:23:05
Time check on our Agenda items... if this can not be furthered here and now best pose the support or otherwise to the list...
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:24:25
Many of us did not understanf=d the FR intervention
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:24:39
he can write it in EN perhaps
Annebeth Lange
01:24:58
Yes!
Susan Payne
01:27:35
apologies I need to leave this call
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:28:03
Thanks for joining us @Susan
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:30:16
That is my recollection @Emily, thanks you
John Rodriguez
01:30:28
Yes, I am curious how a percentage would be determined...
Annebeth Lange
01:30:30
@Emily, very clear
Annebeth Lange
01:30:56
And then we have to decide what percentage
Christopher Wilkinson
01:34:18
Sounds like Nigeria. Correct?
Marita Moll
01:34:37
Can countries themselves decide this in any way
Marita Moll
01:35:19
Do we have to prescribe it?
John Rodriguez
01:35:54
Could this concept of a "percentage of" already be captured by "de facto" official languages concept? In other words, a large percentage could already be perceived as "de facto".... just a thought!
Harold Arcos
01:38:43
I don't think the % of people speaking is relevant because any languages are important for someone. Indeed while less people speak on that language is more important because many countries don't wants lose them.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:39:14
delay in lowering hand apologies
Annebeth Lange
01:39:50
We must be careful not creating more problems that we solve with changing the rule from the AGB
Colin O'Brien
01:40:05
How about the top 90 most spoken languages in the world? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:40:06
Indeed Annebeth
Christopher Wilkinson
01:41:20
The right to use your place name in your own language is a greater human right than the so called freedom of speech right to apply for whatever string that the applicants please.
Jaap Akkerhuis
01:41:30
Sounds objective but is yet another arbitrary number
David McAuley (Verisign)
01:41:34
I was hoping for no more than 7,110 Annebeth
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:41:37
Thanks @Colin in the past we have had a number of likely useful "3rd Party"references for this topic but again what makes a list truly authoritative cies into play
Dev Anand Teelucksingh
01:42:22
A more formal list of languages is the ISO 639-3 list https://iso639-3.sil.org/ - the list is here : https://iso639-3.sil.org/code_tables/639/read ; Interestingly there are definitions of languages types : https://iso639-3.sil.org/about/types
Jaap Akkerhuis
01:42:54
no, that is a list of codes!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:44:19
Very True @Annebeth
Jeff Neuman
01:44:51
You can always list an objective list of languages and then provide an objection process after the fact in case one of the languages is not covered
Dev Anand Teelucksingh
01:45:02
Agree Annebeth
Colin O'Brien
01:45:18
Well said Annebeth
Jeff Neuman
01:45:22
This is about the feasibility of doing ealuations
Jeff Neuman
01:45:26
evaluations
Marita Moll
01:45:27
@Annebeth -- totally true
Jaap Akkerhuis
01:46:55
UN Languages is also an arbitrary list, it lists he official languages of the United Nations are the six languages that are used in UN meetings, and in which all official UN documents are written.
David McAuley (Verisign)
01:47:15
I will need to drop off the call in a few minutes.
Marita Moll
01:50:28
Interesting idea -- but automous is a tricky word. I am sure what this means
Annebeth Lange
01:50:28
@Jaap, I know, but at least those languages are based on languages spoken by many people, even if the choice is kind of flavoured by the 2nd world war
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:51:10
@Jaap I believe that the discussion point / proposal is that use of that all be it arbitary but well understood and defined list i.e. UN Languages (+/- Portuguese) as an Adjunct to Official and defacto Official Languages listing of Geo /City Names 'may be more manageable'than "all Langages"...
Marita Moll
01:51:59
As Greg has said -- this almost means we would take sides -- how would we avoid that.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:52:46
Thanks for joing @David
Annebeth Lange
01:54:18
Again, let us be careful not making this more difficult than necessary. That also applies to those names not comprised in the AGB
Katrin Ohlmer
01:54:26
@Marita: The balance betwen public and private interests has to be taken into account.
Marita Moll
01:55:47
Sorry, trouble unmuting
Annebeth Lange
01:56:52
@Marita, this could easily be political, I agree with your views
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:58:56
indeed there are high risks in much of this discussion
Annebeth Lange
01:58:59
@Alan, I agree
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:59:12
EEEK!
Marita Moll
01:59:59
Respect your attempt to expand the discussion Javier
John Rodriguez
02:00:40
@Javier ...Thanks for the discussion on this idea.
Marita Moll
02:01:25
Have we yet arrived at a point where the .amazon issue would be avoided?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:02:33
Agreed @Annebeth considerable progress in these discussions has happened today...
Christopher Wilkinson
02:03:05
Apologies for addressing Kavrouss in French. Une question de freedom of speech! CW
Colin O'Brien
02:03:41
Well said ccTLDs can address these issues.
Jaap Akkerhuis
02:03:41
I actually got a lot of the French
Steve Chan
02:03:53
Wednesday, 24 July 2019 at 05:00 UTC for 90 minutes
Annebeth Lange
02:04:15
Thanks to everyone for a good discussion!
Nkem Nweke
02:04:15
Good bye all
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:04:18
Thanks Javier, Annebeth and everyone... Bye for now
Katrin Ohlmer
02:04:21
Thank you, Javier
Jaap Akkerhuis
02:04:23
bye