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Marika Konings' Personal Meeting Room - Shared screen with speaker view
James Bladel (RrSG)
56:04
Bottom line: I think we (ICANN/SSAD) are over-reaching with this part, and straying in to powers reserved for LEA/Courts/Gov’ts, etc.
James Bladel (RrSG)
56:15
SO I’ll stop responding and messing up the queue.
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
01:02:24
Capability is not legality - or even policy
James Bladel (RrSG)
01:15:08
I guess my position is that we SHOULD explicitly preclude these functions, as they grant powers to SSAD users that should be reserved for law enforcement & courts. Thx.
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
01:18:05
Chris: everyone agrees that reverse lookup and Boolean search are "useful". The question is whether you can get that capability through other legal means, such as a search warrant. I didn't hear you address that
Farzaneh Badii (NCSG)
01:19:26
Useful for whom? And they should not be useful they should be “necessary”.
Farzaneh Badii (NCSG)
01:21:56
Sorry language for what? I got in late
Alex Deacon (IPC)
01:22:14
we defined “bulk access” in a previous meeting - we should stick with that IMO.
Farzaneh Badii (NCSG)
01:24:23
Agree with Stephanie.
Chris Lewis-Evans (GAC)
01:25:20
Milton i was referring to the benefit of data minimisation through boolean searches
Farzaneh Badii (NCSG)
01:26:11
small group consisting of IPC and registrars?
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
01:30:14
Alex, the current document defines bulk access precisely using a footnote
Ayden Férdeline (NCSG)
01:31:56
Existing practices, even if European ccTLDs are doing them, does not necessarily mean they are lawful - even if they may think they are.
margiemilam
01:33:09
Here is the link to the .IT presentation: https://static.ptbl.co/static/attachments/214511/1561364777.pdf?1561364777
Farzaneh Badii (NCSG)
01:33:27
Yes totally agree Ayden. Denmark even has a law that obliges having open WHOIS in place. That doesn’t mean we should follow them, because we can do it doesn’t mean we should or agree to do
Alex Deacon (IPC)
01:33:29
Thanks Milton (re. the footnote)
Georgios Tselentis (GAC)
01:33:44
@Ayden: I did not imply that. I suggested to paue the discussion and examine the lawfulness of the approach -not accept it blindly.
James Bladel (RrSG)
01:34:28
Gentle reminder that ICANN doesn’t govern ccTLDs
James Bladel (RrSG)
01:34:31
or their contracts
Georgios Tselentis (GAC)
01:34:56
@James I did not imply that either
James Bladel (RrSG)
01:36:30
Understood. But ccTLDs are different, because while they are Registry operators and commercial patterns, they are also a proxy for their local government.
Volker Greimann (RrSG)
01:38:48
And their entire contract relationship with customers may be different, they may be relying on certain legal bases not present in the gTLD world, etc
Marika Konings
01:42:15
FYI, the legal memos can be found here: https://community.icann.org/x/SKijBg
Alex Deacon (IPC)
01:56:33
+1 Ben
Volker Greimann (RrSG)
02:01:10
+1 Ben: I do not believe in AI
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
02:02:21
Not sure that a single decision maker is more efficient. I think there could be congestion problems
Alex Deacon (IPC)
02:02:50
+1 Ashley - a prohibition on automatic disclosure of personal data does not mean all/any forms of automation is rolled out. (remember my comment at the end of the day where automating checking of the format/contents/etc. of the request would add value.)
Ashley Heineman (GAC)
02:03:07
A single decision maker doesn't mean a single person.
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
02:03:58
I think the legal opinion is quite clear on this, Alex. You can automate parts of the process to your heart's content, but there must be some meaningful sort of human intervention if the decision has significant effects on the registrant
Volker Greimann (RrSG)
02:04:30
Agree with Matt, but building such a system should be an option of the CP, not a requirement. Otherwise we will just be building barriers to being a CP designed to favour larger entities with more resources
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
02:05:29
Ashley: it does mean a single legal person ;-) and a unified interface which could indeed become more congested if it concentrates ALL high-scale requests from everywhere in the world
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
02:05:42
into a single point
Matt Serlin (RrSG)
02:15:32
Agree that those principles make a lot of sense and should guide the work going forward
Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC)
02:18:27
Automation to a great extent ensures that no violation to GDPR requirements happen because it is not based on human assessments but on a set of rules carefully put together to ensure compliance and implemented by a machine
terri.agnew
02:49:23
we are starting back up
terri.agnew
03:39:09
Recordings are posted on the agenda wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/6oECBw and GNSO Calendar: https://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#sep
James Bladel (RrSG)
03:54:55
There could be a scenario where a Registrar is forced to choose between completing with ICANN’s disclosure request (despite their objections) or face compliance/deaccreditation of their contraact with ICANN.
Ashley Heineman (GAC)
04:00:28
If we can commit to "considering" a single decision maker approach, we can hash all the details out later. Including the possibility of trashing it outright. Not sure now is the best time to continue litigating.
Ashley Heineman (GAC)
04:01:31
And a single decision maker doesn't necessarily have to be ICANN in my book.
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
04:07:51
Are we not "considering" it now?
Volker Greimann (RrSG)
04:31:57
I considered it but am not convioncerd
Volker Greimann (RrSG)
04:32:02
convinced
terri.agnew
05:02:18
We have started