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GNSO Council Meeting
Julf Helsingius
55:22
My client keeps jumping to full screen on it's own every now and then.
Rubens Kuhl
55:55
Julf, like a toddler, wants your undivided attention.
Julf Helsingius
56:28
:)
Rubens Kuhl
57:46
Welcome to all invitees.
Maxim Alzoba
01:00:53
it is possible to pop out chat or participants windows
Scott
01:01:53
Sorry folks for being late, had some computer issues on my end.
Terri Agnew
01:02:23
Document wiki page: https://community.icann.org/display/gnsocouncilmeetings/Documents+16+May+2019
Rubens Kuhl
01:03:25
And Zoom might evolve over time.
nathalie.peregrine
01:05:50
Agenda: https://community.icann.org/display/gnsocouncilmeetings/Final+Proposed+Agenda+16+May+2019
Terri Agnew
01:06:25
@Maximum - yes, use the small arrow in top left hand side or the window you want to “pop out”
Maxim Alzoba
01:08:53
no
Rubens Kuhl
01:10:11
Formal IRT looks fine to me as well.
Maxim Alzoba
01:10:57
one does not form a group usually :(
Rubens Kuhl
01:11:00
I also volunteer to IDN Variant TLDs small group.
Steve Chan
01:11:04
…and Philipppe
Maxim Alzoba
01:11:10
great!
Marika Konings
01:12:27
This one can only be completed once the IFR RT if formed
Julf Helsingius
01:17:15
Thank you! :)
Elsa Saade
01:17:25
Keith, it would be good to CC Flip and I on the exchanges with Jeff and the board?
Rubens Kuhl
01:17:29
Julf, don't thank to us yet. ;-)
Elsa Saade
01:17:31
for Subpro
Arsene Tungali
01:17:51
Good luck, Julf
Julf Helsingius
01:18:19
Thanks, Arsene!
Maxim Alzoba
01:19:12
I see white line :(
Maxim Alzoba
01:19:30
sharing is back for me
Terri Agnew
01:19:34
@Maxim, a document is now being shown, do you see it?
Terri Agnew
01:19:37
Great!
Arsene Tungali
01:20:32
Back now
Marika Konings
01:21:05
See https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/file/field-file-attach/council-recommendations-pdp-igo-ingo-crp-access-final-16may19-en.pdf
Marika Konings
01:21:25
Sorry, wrong link...
Steve Chan
01:22:35
If you’d prefer to review on your own screen
Marie Pattullo
01:23:11
Expertise essential - agree!
Rubens Kuhl
01:23:30
Has conflict of interest being addressed specifically ?
mary.wong
01:24:00
@Rubens, not specifically; we have kept the SOI requirement.
Rubens Kuhl
01:24:47
I believe this theme requires going beyond SOI.
Maxim Alzoba
01:25:00
pdp 3.0 is not final yet, so it is hard to place something on it
Maxim Alzoba
01:25:06
on basis of it
mary.wong
01:27:14
@Maxim, @Paul - that’s why the document draws on PDP3.0 discussions (and what the Council approved for implementation) but does not second-guess what the final form of those will be.
mary.wong
01:27:56
Also - as Keith is saying, this is structured as a separate work track that can go in parallel to the overall RPM (Phase 1 or 2) work.
Paul McGrady
01:29:12
UDRP and URS will both be looked at in Phase 2. Hard to see how we could complete this independent work without considering the larger issues in Phase 2. If the plan is to do that, we should just make this its own PDP rather than trying to tie it into a PDP, but not really tie it in.
Maxim Alzoba
01:30:07
Due to work in parallel with RPM, we might face the same issue as with IGO #5 (lack of volunteers leading to strange results)
Maxim Alzoba
01:30:31
I refer to RPM phase 2
Paul McGrady
01:31:00
+1 Darcy!
Martin Silva
01:32:54
I agree with the concerns. I said it before as well.
Paul McGrady
01:33:59
@Mary, I think this is a great document, but I think we should be looking forward now to rechartering Phase 2 and incorporating in this IGO issues into it. I think a parrallel group will slow down Phase 1 and delay Phase 2. We don't want to give those in Phase 1 who are playing the slow down game (very well, I might add) any reason to slow down and wait further.
Maxim Alzoba
01:34:23
+1 @Paul
Paul McGrady
01:34:37
@Keith - sorry. I finally learned how to take my hand down in AC and then, ZOOM!
mary.wong
01:34:56
@Paul, understood - one reason (amongst several) why a totally separate work track, with different (representative) members, was suggested.
Maxim Alzoba
01:35:33
also there is a coffee icon
Darcy Southwell - Domain.com
01:35:40
I'm not sure the original charter contemplated the Borad considering all PDP issues at once. At least from my read, phases 1 and 2 had separate deliverables. So I'm not sure the total redrafting of a charter for phase 2 is problematic.
mary.wong
01:36:04
@Darcy, I meant the IGO issues.
Darcy Southwell - Domain.com
01:36:17
Ah, sorry.
Maxim Alzoba
01:36:34
new hand
Marie Pattullo
01:37:25
As separate a group as we can within reason, not losing any expertise!
Maxim Alzoba
01:38:07
RPM phase 2 should not be limited to legal experts, it has operational side too (what registries / registrars do in the process/after the resolution)
Darcy Southwell - Domain.com
01:38:31
+1 Maxim
mary.wong
01:38:42
If it helps, the staff view the substantive issue at hand as not really an RPM issue, but more of international law, ADR and to some extent international IP.
Paul McGrady
01:38:52
I think we are definetly going to have to revised the Phase 2 Charter one way or the other. It would be irresponsible of us not to carry forward PDP 3.0 and other lessons learned from Phase 1 into Phase 2. So, how about we get started now? Drafting team?
Marie Pattullo
01:39:08
Maxim - so when we re-charte phase 2 do we have a reconstitued RPM WG membership?
Marie Pattullo
01:39:17
*re-charter
Marie Pattullo
01:39:42
Count me in, Paul
Paul McGrady
01:40:06
@Marie - yes, PDP 3.0's approach on the size/originas of the team is very different than our prior approach.
Maxim Alzoba
01:40:19
@Marie, we need to have three components of expertise : legal, operational, tech
Marie Pattullo
01:41:00
Thanks both!
Maxim Alzoba
01:41:05
and since ROs and RRs have to do whatever found in RPM2 - they need to be there
mary.wong
01:42:36
@Maxim, there will be operational implications, yes, but to our mind, until the legal issues are understood and addressed, you won’t know what those are. “Operational” and “technical” also more likely means ADR providers (though there will be some implementation considerations for contracted parties, as is usual with any potential policy change).
Maxim Alzoba
01:44:05
@Mary, I would not recommend to invent something non-implementable, and the way to form the PDP is up to GNSO Council
mary.wong
01:45:52
@Maxim, of course - staff was just offering our perspective based on the Curative Rights experience. The legal issue is the fundamental problem; so hopefully that helps the Council decide how it wants to form the group. Even in Phase 2, we suggest it is still best considered by a specialist sub-group.
Maxim Alzoba
01:46:35
@Mary, without Registries and Registrars the group will have no specialists in operational side / tech side
Maxim Alzoba
01:47:42
thanks for suggestions
Maxim Alzoba
01:49:42
for example - currently legal requirements for Registries is hidden in the URS technical document
Marie Pattullo
01:50:33
Agree with Mary - and Maxim, the draft foresees the composition as including CPH people so hopefully they will be the experts from "your side"?
Rubens Kuhl
01:50:56
Mary, considering how badly URS was implemented from an operational standpoint, there is a bad history in things made without understanding of how contracted parties operate.
Rubens Kuhl
01:51:28
So RPMs are not only about the dispute per se, but how the consequences of dispute are implemented.
Maxim Alzoba
01:51:32
the draft is to be changed
nathalie.peregrine
01:53:13
Legislative/ Regulatory Reports:https://www.icann.org/legislative-report-2019
Brian Aitchison ICANN Org
01:53:25
Thanks all! Appreciate your review and consideration of the PSR
Michele Neylon
02:01:17
Is Ayden’s audio bad?
Julf Helsingius
02:01:19
Badly chopped up audio
Michele Neylon
02:01:20
or is it me?
Michele Neylon
02:01:24
I can’t hear him at all
Maxim Alzoba
02:01:25
Aiden is on GSM codec - mobile
Tatiana Tropina
02:01:26
yes I can hardly hear Ayden
Terri Agnew
02:01:41
@Ayden, would you like a dial out on the telephone?
Maxim Alzoba
02:01:59
mute button?
Ayden Férdeline
02:02:13
I was on the audio bridge...
Ayden Férdeline
02:02:20
i will try computer audio next
Carlos Raul Gutierrez
02:03:30
Sorry. I was not aware I have to unmute 2 times, both cel and in the webapp
Carlos Raul Gutierrez
02:03:38
just for the others to take note
Maxim Alzoba
02:04:57
Aiden, it is perfect
Tatiana Tropina
02:05:00
Ayden your sound is perfect now
Maxim Alzoba
02:05:17
@Ayden, sorry , misstyped
nathalie.peregrine
02:05:27
@carlos, sorry about that, it can be the case that we need to unmute twice, once locally (phone) and also on Zoom, next to your name.
Osvaldo Novoa
02:05:36
Hello all, sorry I’m late, got delayed in traffic
nathalie.peregrine
02:05:45
Welcome Osvalao.
nathalie.peregrine
02:05:48
Osvaldo!
Carlos Raul Gutierrez
02:08:22
We can always ASK @Ayden. As I said in the last call we need to start there, as most GAC members at least understand to a certain degree ICANN (or should)
Julf Helsingius
02:08:56
Indeed. The GAC representatives might represent their countries, but in a narrow sense, ans might not be briefed on all developments.
Maxim Alzoba
02:09:01
community should not be excluded from notification process
Maxim Alzoba
02:09:47
GAC is mostly telecom regilators/ministries, and might have slightly different perspective than the rest of the particular gov.
Marie Pattullo
02:11:29
Interesting point Tanya - logical - yes, law x means y, but RED FLAG may have effect z on ICANN.
Tatiana Tropina
02:12:16
I think if someone put it there, there’s a reason. :)
Tatiana Tropina
02:12:26
so just to see the reason
ESun
02:12:37
That sounds fair!
Darcy Southwell - Domain.com
02:13:21
Agree with Tatiana's comment about the why statement.
ESun
02:13:40
and would not lead to a randomness of laws affecting processes without proper relevant reasoning.
Darcy Southwell - Domain.com
02:15:53
As we explore this, we should be careful to focus on what the final product really should be vs. all possible final products. Need to balance cost v. value of result to ICANN and community.
Tatiana Tropina
02:16:37
Michele, that’s what I suggested - make a note why particular piece made its way to the report
Maxim Alzoba
02:16:56
spending few 10M per year to resolve issues of few 100k might be a bad idea
Paul McGrady
02:17:05
While agreeing with Michele and Darcy, I do think it is important for the Community generally, and the Council specifically, not to be ostriches either. We need to find a balance between what Ayden was suggesting and doing nothing.
Philippe Fouquart
02:17:14
Agree Darcy, it can end up being a "bottomless pit" in terms of resources
Michele Neylon
02:17:43
Paul - I wasn’t suggesting being an ostrich
Michele Neylon
02:17:52
but more KISS
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:18:20
Thank Tou Mandy
Pam Little, RrSG
02:18:27
Thank you Mandy, especially while you are unwell.
Maarten Simon, ccNSO liaison
02:18:42
leaving you here as announced. have a productive further meeting !
Paul McGrady
02:18:47
@Michele - understood - I agree with you that we need a lightweight framework and then those of us who have specific concerns about specific laws can ask for a drill down.
nathalie.peregrine
02:19:10
Slide deck: https://gnso.icann.org/en/drafts/presentation-irp-16may19-en.pdf
Darcy Southwell - Domain.com
02:19:24
Agree with the basic data points Michele called out.
Michele Neylon
02:25:23
@paul exactly - some stuff will be super important for ICANN - some will be super important for my business BUT not ICANN
Paul McGrady
02:27:16
@Staff - can you send around these slides on the mailing list? Very heplful stuff. Also, sorry if you already did. I had trouble getting my new email address on to the Council list, so I missed some emails.
nathalie.peregrine
02:27:39
Slide deck: https://gnso.icann.org/en/drafts/presentation-irp-16may19-en.pdf
Paul McGrady
02:27:48
Thanks Nathalie!
Pam Little, RrSG
02:33:16
Thank you, David
David McAuley
02:34:35
link to current IOT members, not all are active at present: https://community.icann.org/display/IRPIOTI/Independent+Review+Process+-+Implementation+Oversight+Team+%28IRP-IOT%29+Home
Pam Little, RrSG
02:34:38
Thanks Liz
David McAuley
02:35:18
Thanks all
Rubens Kuhl
02:38:03
What are the term limits for this position, if they exist ?
Maxim Alzoba
02:38:15
3?
Marie Pattullo
02:40:03
Yes - thanks for the service!
Arsene Tungali
02:41:48
To James: What is the average time commitment for this role?
Arsene Tungali
02:42:42
Thanks, James
mary.wong
02:42:42
Apologies for late response: CSG members and liaisons are appointed for 2 years (initially 3 for half the team), with option to renew for up to 2 additional terms.
Rafik Dammak
02:42:42
Thanks James
Rafik Dammak
02:42:55
question was to help council to know more about the CSC and liaiso nrole
Tatiana Tropina
02:43:08
Thank you James!
James Gannon
02:43:10
Thanks everyone
nathalie.peregrine
02:43:35
Brian’s Slide deck: https://gnso.icann.org/en/meetings/presentation-multi-stakeholder-model-14may19-en.pdf
mary.wong
02:44:00
Also, the amended CSC Charter confirms appointments are by the various groups, but requires an Expression of Interest that highlights (as James noted) knowledge of IANA functions, among other things.
Carlos Raul Gutierrez
02:49:33
Let us see the last slide @brian
Tatiana Tropina
02:52:07
thanks, Brian. I was wondering about ATRT3, too :)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:52:54
Brian is working closely with the ATRT3 to ensure we are complementary and not tripping over each other...
Tatiana Tropina
02:53:05
Michele, plus million. We haven’t even implemented WS2 and ATRT3 is doing it’s work and just started and now *this*.
Keith Drazek
02:53:14
The question of cost is better asked of ICANN Org
Ayden Férdeline
02:53:20
MSSI… this department seems to have access to unlimited resources...
Tatiana Tropina
02:53:35
Keith, I totally want to ask this question of ICANN Org.
Tatiana Tropina
02:54:30
so the PDP3.0 was not enough. It’s the same situation, we haven’t really implemented anything, but we are already discussing revamping. I am sorry for my tone, but.
Michele Neylon
02:54:41
the question on cost was not answered
Maxim Alzoba
02:55:03
@Mary, Please send us followup about the cost (Michele question)
Tatiana Tropina
02:55:06
thanks all! Have a great evening
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:55:06
Thanks Brian
Rafik Dammak
02:55:10
Thanks all
Maxim Alzoba
02:55:10
bye all
Flip Petillion
02:55:11
Thanks all
Darcy Southwell - Domain.com
02:55:12
Bye all
Elsa Saade
02:55:13
thanks
Elsa Saade
02:55:16
bye
Ayden Férdeline
02:55:17
Thanks all
Paul McGrady
02:55:20
@Keith - INTA Annual Meeting is next week, so I'll be unavailable
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:55:20
Bye Thanks Kieth et.al
Arsene Tungali
02:55:23
bye all