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Terri Agnew's Personal Meeting Room - Shared screen with speaker view
Emily Barabas
39:55
and as a note, these are just examples
Emily Barabas
40:07
to encourage proposals
Emily Barabas
40:25
of concrete policy goals
Jim Prendergast
41:20
I think the middle goal is a challenge - we can only lead people to the program - we cant set policy that increases the number of successful assistance recipients.
Emily Barabas
43:12
note that the text is green here because it was moved up from lower in the document
Emily Barabas
43:30
correct, that is new
Justine Chew
43:44
YEs
christopher wilkinson
43:48
Good evening, all, CW
Emily Barabas
44:17
we have not yet gone over the comment from ICANN org
christopher wilkinson
45:44
@New Idea - Apple Pie
Donna Austin, Neustar
47:34
Wasn't me raising concers about gaming
Donna Austin, Neustar
47:45
nope
Emily Barabas
47:56
Trang raised some concerns.
Julie Hedlund
48:19
There’s the ICANN Org concern/new idea
Maxim Alzoba
48:36
Hello All, sorry for being bit late
Christa Taylor
49:49
A reasonable amount of time was discussed a while back and everyone seemed to approve of the idea
Donna Austin, Neustar
50:14
Did we decide how long a reasonable period of time is?
Justine Chew
50:19
@Christa, which idea is this?
Christa Taylor
50:55
I don't think we got to the exact amount of time, 'reasonable' was used.
Christa Taylor
51:26
@Justine - change from moving from AS to the standard application process
Justine Chew
51:40
@Christa, thanks!
Robin Gross
53:04
Agree, Christa.
Justine Chew
54:51
So, ICANN's Org point over gaming is noted but the potential incidence of gaming should be handled diffierently and not be the main cause of dampening the number of potential applicants for ASP.
Trang Nguyen
57:01
Correct, ICANN org’s comment is not an objection against allowing applicants to pay the remaining fees to continue in the program, but rather was meant to raise a potential issue for the PDP WG to discuss.
Steve Chan
57:54
Question: Does the WG believe the potential for gaming is to be accepted, or should alternative mitigations be explored?
Alexander Schubert
59:16
nobody can change strings
Katrin Ohlmer
59:17
Agree with Donna
Christa Taylor
59:17
@Donna - I don't recall discussing that question
Christopher Wilkinson
59:32
OK. Keep the same string.
Maxim Alzoba
01:00:29
human beings are extremely inventive when income might arise … so there always be gaming, the question is the scale and damage
Justine Chew
01:00:41
Yes, agree, no change in string. The change in selection of string only arises if there was conention but I don't think we have thoroughly discussed that situation.
Maxim Alzoba
01:00:46
Extremely low volume
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:00:47
Indeed well noted @Maxim
Donna Austin, Neustar
01:01:00
I believe there's another form of gaming in moving to the mainstream application process if there is an ability to change the string.
Steve Chan
01:01:48
In terms of mitigations, for instance, there could some form of a quick look mechanism, akin to that in objections.
Christopher Wilkinson
01:02:10
There are of course other considerations. An App Supp application might be associated with Geo-approval, which might not be transferrable.
Donna Austin, Neustar
01:03:46
I raised this last week, but just to reiterate that the timing of the evaluation of applicant support vs timing of the application process is important here.
Phil Buckingham
01:08:58
Agreed Alexander. So we abolish all refunds for withdrawing an application ?
Paul McGrady
01:10:44
joining late
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:11:14
Welcome Paul
Christopher Wilkinson
01:12:17
I must say that I rather expected that most AS applications would be IDN or GEO.
Katrin Ohlmer
01:14:19
I'm not too sure if we'll be able to anticipate all potential ASP gaming scenarios which will lead to over-complicating the applicant process.
Donna Austin, Neustar
01:14:36
@christopher, I think that's a flawed assumption.
Justine Chew
01:14:46
@Christa, sorry I missed your comment, could you put it in chat please?
Maxim Alzoba
01:14:54
IDN is a language , does not have anything to do with money
Greg Shatan
01:15:03
I expect NGOs to be the most likely AS applicants.
Donna Austin, Neustar
01:15:15
Agree with Katrin, let's try to keep it simple.
Steve Chan
01:15:15
If I am not mistaken, the tangible benefit from 2012 version of Applicant Support was limited to a reduced fee amount. It had no bearing on the type of application or string type.
Maxim Alzoba
01:15:37
GEOs have support of governments, they usually do not support organizations , which can not ensure the process to be solid without additional support
Maxim Alzoba
01:16:10
so I think there might be a need of support for communities (which might be IDNs)
Katrin Ohlmer
01:16:39
@Maxim - exactly, no government woudl hand out a support letter to an entity which would depend on ASP grants
Steve Chan
01:16:46
And I only raise that in the context of switching from Applicant Support to…something else. That something else would presumably be a full application fee amount.
Alexander Schubert
01:17:09
Applicants claiming support would be notified BEFORE the "big reveal" that they don't qualify for support - and would have to commit to pay the full amount - and the applicants for THAT string (if there are several) will only be revealed after ALL applicants have paid their full fees. Then the "gamer" has no information "gain" - and gaming makes no sense anymore.
Donna Austin, Neustar
01:17:53
I think I agree with you Alexander
Donna Austin, Neustar
01:18:41
They are able to move their application to a mainstream process rather than the
Donna Austin, Neustar
01:18:45
string
Donna Austin, Neustar
01:19:38
Sorry, the application with the requested string.
Justine Chew
01:20:21
@Alexander, makes sense.
Alexander Schubert
01:21:05
Gaming example: you apply for .shanghai (not claiming it was NOT targeting the city - so you don't need a city support letter); you ask for fee support:
Alexander Schubert
01:22:16
In case you are the only applicant - GREAT: pay the applicant fee and sell the application to a media company in Shanghai. Free gTLD-testing.
Donna Austin, Neustar
01:25:18
I think some of this depends on the support being provided through the program, but I agree with the principle that wilful gaming should be discouraged.
Christopher Wilkinson
01:27:12
@Alexander - Ouch. <we do not want a secondary market in non-completed applications!!
Maxim Alzoba
01:32:24
IDNs are usually locally focused (not all of them)
Katrin Ohlmer
01:34:29
I think applicants should be able to apply regardless from their location - there could be small linguistic communities, cities or regions on any continent which might benefit from the ASP.
Maxim Alzoba
01:36:28
another 12 years?
Donna Austin, Neustar
01:36:34
Good point Maxim
Maxim Alzoba
01:38:36
The previous system was installed with the help of the same community
Christa Taylor
01:39:11
I'm not sure I see the logic on how suggesting AS applicants to wait is supportive...
Phil Buckingham
01:40:14
Agreed Katrin. This is getting far too over complicated . Define this . Define that
Vanda Scartezini
01:40:21
yes Cheryl this is fundamental
Robin Gross
01:42:05
Does Flint, Michigan count as an underserved region?
Donna Austin, Neustar
01:43:00
I thought 'underserved' or 'underdeveloped' regions were defined by the UN or some other benchmark.
Christa Taylor
01:47:39
I can't remember exactly what was said but there was discussion on the regions that the UN designated as underserved and how applicable/up to do the list is/what it is updated
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:48:38
Of course it will be brilliant
Alexander
01:50:26
I think that the STRING should "serve" the "Global South" or other "struggling regions". So a language gTLD or a geo gTLD of that target group shoud be supported! NOT if they apply for a ".web"-type of gTLD.
Mary Wong
01:51:01
Aw thanks - I should drop in more often :) (and it’s all due to coordination with Steve and the GNSO team that I’m on!)
Vanda Scartezini
01:51:27
developing countries I guess is the most common definitions
Justine Chew
01:52:04
@Mary, noted, is ICANN Org looking at possible sources for defining "underserved/underdeveloped communities/regions"?
Steve Chan
01:53:26
We will hopefully get to the section in a moment, but you will see the following text from the ICANN Board in referring the CCT-RT’s recommendation 29 to this group: “Note the recommendation and pass the recommendation through to the noted community groups for their consideration. Given the interdependency between this recommendation and recommendation 30, as both recommendations rely upon the same undefined term “Global South”, the Board notes that the New gTLD Subsequent Procedures PDP WG could take on, should they choose to do so, defining the term “Global South” in coordination with ICANN org, its engagement teams, and geographic regions definitions to create a workable definition, or agreeing on another term to describe underserved or underrepresented regions or stakeholders in coordination with ICANN org.”
Mary Wong
01:54:43
@Justine, yes indeed, in order to come up with the appropriate definitions in the ICANN context.
Justine Chew
01:55:20
@Mary, thanks. Would it possible to share those analysis?
Mary Wong
01:55:34
@CLO - yes, that’s one of the programs that’ll be affected, as well as CROP, capacity development requests, etc. etc. And as @Steve noted, it’s in the CCT-RT recs too.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:55:46
Noted
Trang Nguyen
01:57:10
The Applicant Support Program evaluation criteria that I just spoke about are in the New gTLD Financial Assistance Handbook at https://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/candidate-support/financial-assistance-handbook-11jan12-en.pdf. Specifically, the lists that I referenced are tied to criteria #4 under Public Interest on page 14 of the document.
Vanda Scartezini
01:59:11
whatever is South hemisphere or not developing countries IMO covers most of the countries/regions we iagree needed to improve nall issues related to this round , for this program or other ones inside ICANN
Justine Chew
02:01:20
@Cheryl, nope, all good.
Jim Prendergast
02:01:57
still not sure how you define "underserved". These terms have to be defined if incorporated into the report.
Mary Wong
02:03:05
@Jim, that’s why we are looking to see if this group will be coming up with definitions - and then we can take the opportunity to discuss (outside SubPro)whether the same definitions make sense across ICANN programs.
Maxim Alzoba
02:03:05
bye all
Justine Chew
02:03:55
Could we please have an action item to ask ICANN Org to share their thinking on "underserved/under-developed communities/regions" 'in moving away from Global South'?
Mary Wong
02:05:14
We most certainly will - it’s work in early stages right now.
Justine Chew
02:05:35
@Mary, thank you.
Steve Chan
02:05:37
Thursday, 01 August 2019 at 03:00 UTC for 90 minutes
Vanda Scartezini
02:05:56
thanks to all , bu will be never tired fo you Cheryl
Justine Chew
02:06:16
Thanks all.
Katrin Ohlmer
02:06:24
Thanks, Cheryl!