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Terri Agnew's Personal Meeting Room - Shared screen with speaker view
Andrea Glandon
09:07
If you have any Zoom questions, please feel free to send them in chat and I will assist you.
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
11:27
hi all, apologies, I have a conflict later and will have to drop at the top of the hour.
julie.hedlund
12:45
@Kirstine — noted.
Andrea Glandon
20:00
Reminder to all, to turn off your video, please hover at the bottom and click on stop video
Kathy Kleiman
20:07
OK - tx!
Maxim Alzoba
22:12
a per TLD SDRP policy ?
mary.wong
22:34
On the descriptive portion of Q6(a), this was covered during the initial WG discussion of the refined Sunrise Charter questions (i.e. info about SDRPs)
Maxim Alzoba
22:43
so answers at least per TLD
David McAuley
24:48
i think i was dropped from Zoom - but was on phone - i cannot tell if I was dropped but it sure left my screen somehow
Susan Payne
27:25
But Maxim there are minimumrequirements imposed on all TLDs and that's what we are required to look at
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
27:26
If we want to talk about disputes over the TMCH's names: http://www.trademark-clearinghouse.com/dispute
Andrea Glandon
27:50
@David, I show you are still connected by Zoom and phone
David McAuley
28:47
thanks Andrea
Maxim Alzoba
29:12
@Susan, it is still per TLD , and is subject to compliance (if a particular Registry invented something really strange) , and to say that we checked all we have to check all Registries and all SDRPs (just plain logic)
Andrea Glandon
29:21
You’re welcome, David!
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
30:11
But yes, Maxim is right that each RO has it's own SDRP. But each has to have certain elements per the AG: Applicant Guidebook 4 June 2012, Module 5, Page 8, Article 6.2.4
Maxim Alzoba
31:11
I need to remind the group that Registries are not responsible for actions or inactions of other non affiliated Registries.
Susan Payne
31:58
2.3.6 of the RPMs requirements: Registry Operator MUST provide a mechanism to resolve disputesregarding its registration of Sunrise Registrations. Each RegistryOperator MUST develop a Sunrise Dispute Resolution Policy (“SDRP”),which will allow challenges to Sunrise Registrations related toRegistry Operator’s Allocation and registration policies, including onthe grounds that the domain name that was registered does not matchthe Trademark Record on which the Sunrise-Eligible Rights Holderbased its Sunrise Registration. Registry Operator MUST provideprompt notice of the outcome of an SDRP proceeding to the affectedparties. To the extent applicable, ICANN MUST use commerciallyreasonable efforts to ensure that the TMCH Sunrise and ClaimsOperator cooperates with Registry Operator in effectuating RegistryOperator’s SDRP.
Susan Payne
32:23
Oh, sorry - horrible formatting! I tried to pose the text from the RPMs requirements
Maxim Alzoba
33:36
@Susan, it is a requirement, and we have a question about implementation
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
33:53
@Maxim, no it's not about implementation.
Kathy Kleiman
34:53
are you using it Maxim?
Maxim Alzoba
36:53
simple question - how many SDRPs are there?
Maxim Alzoba
37:50
I meant that direct answer to questions is not possible in limited timeframe
David McAuley
39:12
So Kristine you see the ability to winnow SDRP requirements, no? You are not suggesting adding anything, just paring back, is that right?
Kathy Kleiman
39:24
I agree with Claudio that you need both levels.
Kathy Kleiman
39:35
TMCH challenge and SDRP challenge.
Maxim Alzoba
40:00
and Registries , who are prohibited from looking into TMCH
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
40:38
@David, that is what I'm suggesting, but if the group thinks there are additional problems, this might be the place to include a remedy.
David McAuley
40:47
Thank you
Susan Payne
41:04
@Claudio - but that info is available to anyone from the zone file data
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
41:15
These are the elements from the AG:
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
41:16
i. at time the challenged domain name was registered, the registrant did not hold a trademark registration of national effect (or regional effect) or the trademark had not been court-validated or protected by statute or treaty;ii. the domain name is not identical to the mark on which the registrant based its Sunrise registration;iii. the trademark registration on which the registrant based its Sunrise registration is not of national effect (or regional effect) or the trademark had not been court-validated or protected by statute or treaty; oriv. the trademark registration on which the domain name registrant based its Sunrise registration did not issue on or before the date specified by the Registry in its Sunrise Criteria, if one was specified.
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
41:38
only (ii) is anything the RO can control. The rest are generally within the TMCH's contorl.
mary.wong
41:42
FWIW, when Deloitte met with the full WG about 2 years ago, they reported that all the sunrise-related disputes they’d handled to date had been from TM owners regarding verification of TM info.
David McAuley
43:50
Thanks Mary - do we know if that pattern held afterward?
Kathy Kleiman
44:26
Agreed commencement issues.
mary.wong
45:46
@David, I don’t believe so - as I don’t believe this specific data point is part of Deloitte’s monthly reports to ICANN.
Susan Payne
45:54
@Greg, no because they operate at the registry level
Maxim Alzoba
45:58
+1 @Greg, it might be the best question about this subject
David McAuley
46:02
OK, thanks @Mary
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
46:11
my hand is up
Maxim Alzoba
46:13
also it is per TLD
Kathy Kleiman
46:16
Staff response?\
Maxim Alzoba
46:37
probably Compliance might have number of complaints about it
mary.wong
46:57
@Kathy, sorry if we missed a question - which is the question that still needs a staff response?
Maxim Alzoba
47:36
now is 2019, most probably 3 years to store info ended for most 2013-2015 RAs
David McAuley
48:00
@Mary, Greg asked if there is a single data set of all SDRPs ever filed in one place, something like that
Maxim Alzoba
48:51
I am against adding requirement to use FORUM for SDRP
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
48:59
+1 Maxim
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
49:01
Of course
Kathy Kleiman
49:08
hand up
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
52:05
At Kathy, if a challenger brings that exact claim to the RO, the RO will say " you have to talk to the TMCH...we can't see in"
Kathy Kleiman
52:16
single right of access to a TMCH record?
Kathy Kleiman
52:59
Based on a valid showing a ) trademark or other rights, and/or b) a reason to believe there is a problem with the Sunrise registration?
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
53:26
the RO doesn't make substantive decisions. It's a technical comparison. String on list = allow. String not on list = deny.
Kathy Kleiman
53:33
@Kristine - agreed. That's why the right of access (for a single shot) has to be to the TMCH.
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
53:54
Ultimatley, if the the TMCH says it's in there, no RO can make a decision on 6.2.4 (i)
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
54:07
That's why the TMCH has a dispute policy.
Kathy Kleiman
54:15
But what is in the TMCH and what can be challenged by the sunrise is difference.
Kathy Kleiman
54:19
different.
Kathy Kleiman
54:44
What is the TM was created the day before it was filed, and the rules require it to be 2 years old?
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
54:53
then you tell the TMCH they screwed up. :)
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
54:58
the RO still can't fix it.
Kathy Kleiman
55:20
Using the TMCH record to challenge the Sunrise in SDRP.
Maxim Alzoba
55:33
RO can add a line into SDRP policy saying that it can not do anything about TMCH mistakes
Kathy Kleiman
55:54
Right - tx Greg!
mary.wong
56:15
@Greg, @Kathy, all - to answer an earlier question, staff is not aware of any single published source of all ROs’ SDRPs.
Kathy Kleiman
56:30
Tx Mary
Maxim Alzoba
56:36
I really love coffee icon in zoom
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
56:40
But I still don't understand how an RO would know about a bad record any more than the 3P would
David McAuley
56:42
Yes, thanks Mary
Maxim Alzoba
57:12
TMCH is in ‘always right’ mode for Registries
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
57:20
+1Maxim.
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
57:58
And even if the TMCH did send us a record (that would be administrative hell for a RO to have to be the courier for THOSE requests), we cannot determine if they made a mistake. You still have to go through their dispute policy.
mary.wong
58:27
Here is the TMCH’s Dispute Resolution Procedure (per Kristine and Susan) which allows third parties to challenge a decision as to a TMCH decision/record: http://www.trademark-clearinghouse.com/dispute
Scott Austin
58:36
What about the remedy? After all the effort to track Sunrise and time the complaint within the 90 day period isn't there a problem if the only remedy is for the RO to cancel the registration and throw it back into the sea of available names for purchase again by the same party. It is not a forced transfer to a successful complainant like the UDRP, correct? And what, if any, remedy is available if the rightsholder if they believe their mark is in a string reserved by an RO?
Maxim Alzoba
59:29
I object against using a particular TLD SDRP as applicable to all TLDs (also different jurisdictions have different ideas in legislation, business practices)
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
59:52
@Scott, as I recall, there is no standard remedy, though cancelling is the obvious choice.
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:00:24
FORUM suggests to its customers that they might want to include an option for a competitor to obtain the registration if they have their own SMD file, but that's just one option.
Maxim Alzoba
01:00:25
Sunrise protect only TMCH users
Maxim Alzoba
01:00:39
are we trying to extend that?
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:01:17
All, good discussion, but I have to bail for a previous engagement. Talk to you next week (or maybe it's cancelled due to GDD?)
julie.hedlund
01:01:43
@All: We are meeting next week. It isn’t cancelled for GDD.
David McAuley
01:01:56
Thanks for your comments Kristine
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:02:19
@Julie, ok, it's apparently not on my calendar yet.
Susan Payne
01:02:26
well we do still have whois, for what it's now worth :)
julie.hedlund
01:02:36
@Kristina: It will appear after this meeting :-)
Maxim Alzoba
01:03:08
it is quite bad - Registries and Registrars will have less participants, and given that they have experience , we might have strange outcome of the next week’s calls
julie.hedlund
01:03:51
@Maxim: There will be the opportunity to continue some of the discussion on the next call and also on discussion threads.
julie.hedlund
01:04:06
(the call in two weeks)
Maxim Alzoba
01:04:25
@Julie, it does not seem to be equal to participation (according to my historical exp.)
Kathy Kleiman
01:05:14
can you post link?
David McAuley
01:10:27
if some discussions are taken offline you shoul dconsider using thread to note tenor of discussion and conclusions, if any
mary.wong
01:10:57
Staff hand up please.
Kathy Kleiman
01:11:42
right!
Kathy Kleiman
01:12:52
kosher records, that's a new one :-)
Kathy Kleiman
01:12:59
tx for the summary - I took notes
Maxim Alzoba
01:13:01
not sure we can use that
Maxim Alzoba
01:14:28
A registrant has zero rights before paying to TMCH as a valid TM owner
Kathy Kleiman
01:14:50
Claudio - I think this is a way to address!
Susan Payne
01:15:12
Mary has had her hand up for ages
David McAuley
01:15:14
Greg - staff hand up
David McAuley
01:15:50
it is hard to see that hand in zoom
Susan Payne
01:16:23
agreed David, there really needs to be a way for staff to put hands up
Kathy Kleiman
01:16:39
@Mary, link?
Ariel Liang
01:16:43
https://newgtlds.icann.org/en/program-status/sunrise-claims-periods
Kathy Kleiman
01:16:51
Tx Ariel!
Ariel Liang
01:17:12
BTW, if you click on “Insurance” or “NGO” you will see the SDRP listed there
Maxim Alzoba
01:17:29
so only thousand or so files to check
Ariel Liang
01:17:31
It requires some clicking
David McAuley
01:17:57
you will need that coffee Maxim ;-)
Maxim Alzoba
01:18:17
that’s why I was saying ‘we might not have enough time’
Scott Austin
01:18:23
Kristine: Thanks I had just looked at the SDRP The Forum posted for the .onl TLD registry. It appeared cancellation and filing an app by the complainant was an option.
mary.wong
01:19:06
@Maxim, correct - RO by RO and link by link.
Maxim Alzoba
01:19:52
btw - .ink is an end-date sunrise , and not all TLDs had the same
Susan Payne
01:20:38
@Maxim I think Claudio meant INC
Maxim Alzoba
01:23:02
@Susan, maybe , but the other part still uses end-date :)
Kathy Kleiman
01:25:42
Interesting....
julie.hedlund
01:25:49
hand up
David McAuley
01:26:16
Thanks Claudio - or use thread
David McAuley
01:26:53
good idea, Julie
David McAuley
01:27:24
+1 @Greg
Susan Payne
01:28:08
@Maxim, no-one is suggesting that
Maxim Alzoba
01:28:37
no, I had not suggested it
Kathy Kleiman
01:28:56
Tx for chairing today, Greg
mary.wong
01:28:57
@Greg, correct - staff was not making any proposals or suggestions; merely describing where and how info on SDRPs can be found.
Kathy Kleiman
01:29:31
Who can't make it next week?
David McAuley
01:30:05
Well said, Julie
Maxim Alzoba
01:30:13
is going to be night in Bangkok, not sure about
Greg Shatan
01:30:18
Thanks and bye!
Maxim Alzoba
01:30:18
bye all