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GNSO Council Meeting - Shared screen with speaker view
Paul McGrady
42:15
I'm here.
Paul McGrady
42:45
I am connected by dial out on my phone since I will be mobile shortly. Not sure why you couldn't hear me via my phone. Weird.
Paul McGrady
43:34
I bet I'm having the same problem
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
43:54
I suspect so Paul
Paul McGrady
43:58
Should I hang up and call back in?
Terri Agnew
45:29
We will make sure she hears the greetings. So sweet!
Paul McGrady
45:40
@Staff, what should I do if you can't hear me via phone?
Andrea Glandon
45:52
@Paul, yes, please disconnect and try again
Terri Agnew
45:53
@Paul, would you like us to dial out to you?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
45:58
Congratulations Tatiana!!!
Paul McGrady
46:02
Yes, lets try that.
Paul McGrady
46:06
312 882 5020
Pam Little, RrSG
46:08
Congrats, Tatiana
Elsa Saade
46:11
YES TANYA! ❤️
Elsa Saade
46:15
congrats
Marika Konings
46:17
Welcome to the Netherlands!
Philippe Fouquart
46:18
Congratulations!
Maxim Alzoba
46:20
formally it is still EU
Tatiana Tropina
46:21
thank you guys :-)
Paul McGrady
46:23
Congrats Tatiana
maarten.simon
46:26
Congratulations and welcome to The Netherlands !
Terri Agnew
46:30
@Paul, we are dialing out to you.
Julf Helsingius
46:35
Tatiana: Have you already got a new umbrella and some gore-tex? :)
Flip Petillion
46:39
Proficiat Tatiana !
Tatiana Tropina
46:53
@Maarten, totally love it here in NL
Tatiana Tropina
47:20
Julf, got Rains trench coat, wondering if there’s any umbrella that can survive real rain
Marie Pattullo
47:21
Fantastic news Tanya!
Paul McGrady
47:51
I'm dialed back in. Let me know when it is a good time to test the line.
Tatiana Tropina
48:36
Marie, thank you!
Michele Neylon
51:02
putting project review at the end is a good idea
Marika Konings
54:25
Please note that you can also download all documents here: https://community.icann.org/x/MY-kBg
Michele Neylon
54:38
FYI if you see two of me it’s normal
Michele Neylon
54:49
I’m connected via my laptop as well as my phone
Maxim Alzoba
54:52
which one of you is writing?
Michele Neylon
55:00
Both :)
Carlos Gutierrez / PC
55:05
Same here
Terri Agnew
56:47
Noted Michele and Carlos
Michele Neylon
59:43
did audio die?
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
59:50
No, still working for me.
Carlos Gutierrez / PC
59:53
no
Carlos Gutierrez / PC
59:59
working in my phone
Maxim Alzoba
01:00:01
no, phone audio is working for me
Andrea Glandon
01:00:01
No, still here
Marie Pattullo
01:00:03
Me too.
Michele Neylon
01:00:14
Hmm patchy phone coverage :(
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
01:00:43
@Paul: Do you see any concerns with the timing for the URS/UDRP referral item vis-a-vis the RPM WG?
Mary Wong
01:01:37
@Keith, @Paul, all - the CCT-RT recs are on the agenda for the RPM chairs-staff-liaison planning call tomorrow
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
01:01:49
Thanks Mary
Paul McGrady
01:02:05
No, since the Work Track will very likely be done with its work before Phase 2 is underway The Work Track will have a very narrow remit and we can give them a very short timeframe.
Michele Neylon
01:02:07
+1 Pam
Maxim Alzoba
01:02:19
+1
Carlos Gutierrez / PC
01:02:29
+1 Pam
Philippe Fouquart
01:02:39
Agree. Let's send it now.
Terri Agnew
01:02:41
@Michele, it might be best to join via zoom for audio. Is that possible today?
Paul McGrady
01:02:50
@Keith - apologies, it looks like I answered the wrong question. See Mary's relevant response!
Michele Neylon
01:03:08
@Terri I’m using Zoom but I think the data connection was patchy
Terri Agnew
01:03:36
Do you want us to dial out to you via telephone (not using zoom?)
Michele Neylon
01:03:55
Terri - no it’s fine for now
Michele Neylon
01:04:02
If it starts playing up I’ll let you know
Michele Neylon
01:04:04
thanks
Terri Agnew
01:04:52
Sounds good
Paul McGrady
01:05:14
@Keith - plus the interoperability issues between the URS and UDRP are Phase 2 issues, I suspect.
Pam Little, RrSG
01:05:25
No worries, Thanks
Maxim Alzoba
01:09:49
their immunity has more power than our policies
Carlos Gutierrez / PC
01:11:44
there is no single or "usual" immunity for IGOs as per expert study @paul @maxim
Maxim Alzoba
01:12:26
I think it is up to a particular government participating in IGO creation
Mary Wong
01:13:27
@Maxim, just to note, that’s not the case. It’s up to the court where a lawsuit is filed, as to what rule of international law it applies to the question of immunity from its jurisdiction.
Marie Pattullo
01:13:39
Really support the first bullet with the specific skill-set / experience, Paul.
Marie Pattullo
01:13:59
This is such a complex legal area - we need that knowledge to get it right.
Maxim Alzoba
01:16:29
@Mary, it is a complex issue, not all jurisdictions agree to follow decisions of all courts (might change in some future … not now)
Paul McGrady
01:16:43
@Carlos, will defer to you on that, but at least it gives IGOs options
Paul McGrady
01:16:58
@Elsa, I didn't want to leave you out though!
Mary Wong
01:17:22
@Maxim, yes it is a complex issue. There are various international rules that could apply, and each court may choose differently.
Elsa Saade
01:18:40
@paul thanks :))) but i ddnt really do mch
Elsa Saade
01:18:44
if any
Elsa Saade
01:19:38
is that procedural though?
Mary Wong
01:21:03
@Elsa, basically, it is certainly possible that a subsequent GNSO Consensus Policy will change a prior policy. That is what this langauge tries to recognize, especially as Rec 1 (which the Council approved) clearly says there should not be a new proesdure.
Elsa Saade
01:21:38
but writing down that possibility is making it much easier and acceptable to entertain that possibility
Elsa Saade
01:21:51
i completely disagree with including this paragraph
Elsa Saade
01:22:05
following gnso procedure
Tatiana Tropina
01:24:00
Oh I was also not fine with representation section but the procedure got me so hooked that I forgot to say it! :-)
Elsa Saade
01:26:35
then I don’t see why we as a GNSO council had to approve those first 4 recommendations in the first place!
Elsa Saade
01:27:19
precisely! +1 Tanya
Paul McGrady
01:27:59
Agree Tatiana. I think we are on the same page
Paul McGrady
01:28:12
Thanks Keith. Will do.
Tatiana Tropina
01:28:42
Elsa, Paul, Keith: :-)
Paul McGrady
01:29:12
I would really like to get this done before I am put out to pasture
Elsa Saade
01:29:14
Thanks again for the work done on the document!!
Carlos Gutierrez / PC
01:31:22
My apologies to the Chair, I raised my hand to late for the previous point. My Question: do we keep the proposed schedule? for vote in Montreal?
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
01:33:01
Sorry Carlos, I missed you. Yes. We still need to engage with the GAC and IGOs, so Montreal should be our target. Would love to get it done sooner, but that's probably not realistic.
Carlos Gutierrez / PC
01:33:47
@Keith @smallGroup please proceed with redraft ASAP
Carlos Gutierrez / PC
01:34:19
my humble suggestion
Michele Neylon
01:38:56
sorry about audio
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
01:39:33
No problem, we captured your comments.
Michele Neylon
01:39:40
You did thanks
Pam Little, RrSG
01:42:47
Flip
Marie Pattullo
01:42:50
Flip.
Marika Konings
01:44:05
I can find it but I don’t think it was shared yet
Marika Konings
01:45:47
Note that the following language was included as a footnote to one of the EPDP Phase 1 recs in the Final Report: “The topic of accuracy as related to GDPR compliance is expected to be considered further as well as the WHOIS Accuracy Reporting System.”
Pam Little, RrSG
01:45:52
ARS is not a policy
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
01:45:57
I think the ARS was actually not a policy.
Michele Neylon
01:46:39
The ARS was a tool developed a few years ago via compliance I think
Michele Neylon
01:46:44
It was *never* a policy
Marika Konings
01:46:50
If I recall well, ARS is the result of the WHOIS RT1 recommendations and GAC advice.
Maxim Alzoba
01:47:39
ARS was designed without taking into the account GDPR, was it?
Michele Neylon
01:47:48
yup
Marie Pattullo
01:47:52
Apologies for the wrong terminology, Michele. Too tired.
Pam Little, RrSG
01:47:53
Here is the RDS 2 Review final report:
Pam Little, RrSG
01:47:53
https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/rds-whois2-review-03sep19-en.pdf
Michele Neylon
01:48:15
Predates ICANN paying attention to laws on privacy etc
Marie Pattullo
01:49:43
We need accuracy under the GDPR, no?
Michele Neylon
01:50:11
No - as a data subject I have the right to force a controller to correct my data
Maxim Alzoba
01:50:17
accuracy does not equal to accessibility, it can be pretty accurate (as required by GDPR) but closed
Michele Neylon
01:50:38
But some people are trying to twist that Principle around to force the data subject to provide “accurate” data
Marie Pattullo
01:50:45
There was so much good work in the RDS RT though, we shouldn't lose it.
Michele Neylon
01:50:46
which is a completely different conceopt
Marie Pattullo
01:51:03
Thanks Pam!
Michele Neylon
01:51:28
(One of my persona will be disconnecting in about 5 - 10 m minutes
Terri Agnew
01:51:46
@Michele, noted
Marika Konings
01:51:46
For those interested, here is the Bird & Bird memo on accuracy: “https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/102138857/ICANN%20-%20Memo%20on%20Accuracy.docx?version=1&modificationDate=1550152014000&api=v2”
Rafik Dammak
01:51:48
@marie the EPDP team has disagreement about accuracy , as for many in GDPR it is for data subject as right
Michele Neylon
01:52:27
The EPDP group is debating a lot of these topics
Elsa Saade
01:52:39
i think it’s also important to look back at the documents that the epdp charter was based on. i don’t think accuracy was mentioned anywhere there (e.g. temp spec)
Michele Neylon
01:52:41
for Council to muddy the waters further wouldn’t be ideal
Rafik Dammak
01:53:09
EPDP team is pressed to deliver its first report and there are many areas to cover.
Marie Pattullo
01:53:25
I'm not trying to "muddy" anything - we just thought asking questions on what they're doing too would help everyone.
Flip Petillion
01:53:49
Hope EPDP team will indeed clarify. Thanks
Rubens Kuhl
01:54:31
If ARS is unlawful, then there is no other option than shutting it down and considering a replacement tool operating on different methods towards the same goal of increasing accuracy.
Marika Konings
01:55:14
Please note that accuracy is a priority 2 item for the EPDP Team’s phase 2 and similar differences of opinions seem to exist as have been expressed here. The direction on what the EPDP Team is expected to consider is just the footnote in phase 1 for now.
Elsa Saade
01:56:21
it also doesn’t say that it should be considered within epdp phase 2, if I’m not mistaken
Elsa Saade
01:56:50
in that footnote
Pam Little, RrSG
01:57:22
So we can just let Goran know it still work in progress.
Elsa Saade
01:58:46
thanks a lot Keith for entertaining my question
Elsa Saade
01:58:51
and thanks Marika
Terri Agnew
02:02:42
Karen’s presentation has been added to the wiki agenda page.
Maxim Alzoba
02:08:46
@Karen, do you think that AGB is in the area of procedures to be checked for compatibility with GDPR too or is it a step for past SubPro /past RPM PDPs?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:11:41
Seems very close date at this stage...
Elsa Saade
02:13:05
thanks Karen for the presentation
Maxim Alzoba
02:14:20
it was about policies and processes (and AGB is the latter)
Maxim Alzoba
02:14:32
thanks
Pam Little, RrSG
02:15:25
I think Rec#27 only covers existing policies and procedures.
Maxim Alzoba
02:15:39
ok
Rubens Kuhl
02:15:40
Should this effort cover WHOIS ARS ?
Maxim Alzoba
02:15:54
+1 @Rubens, it is a good question
Pam Little, RrSG
02:16:12
@Rubens, ARS is neither a policy nor procedure?
Pam Little, RrSG
02:16:21
It’s just a tool
Pam Little, RrSG
02:16:30
Thanks, Karen
karen.lentz
02:16:32
Thank you
Maxim Alzoba
02:16:40
using ARS is a procedure
Rubens Kuhl
02:16:41
Not a policy: sure. But could be seen as a procedure.
Pam Little, RrSG
02:16:52
Rafik
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
02:25:57
All, we're running over so I'm going to ask everyone to hang on for an extra 10 minutes today.
Julf Helsingius
02:26:55
It is already 0:47 AM here, but we'll survive...
Maxim Alzoba
02:27:03
1.48
Julf Helsingius
02:27:12
Ouch!
Maxim Alzoba
02:27:20
are we not to be expelled from zoom room?
Elsa Saade
02:27:51
uh-oh! 1 and 2 am... the commitment Maxim and Julf!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:28:52
Can I ask the small Team / Council when and how any interaction or seeking of feedback on PDP 3.0 from the outside of GNSO but Interested parts of the wider ICANN Community (such as ALAC) might occur? this can be a question with notice...
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:29:12
I suspect GAC ewould be interested as well
Marie Pattullo
02:29:51
The witching hour passed us by without too many ghosts & ghoulies, Elsa ;-).
Elsa Saade
02:30:23
lool!
Marie Pattullo
02:30:48
(Although I haven't looked in the garden. Who knows).
Elsa Saade
02:31:21
they’re not always too bad (ghosts and ghoulies) perspective perspective!!!
Elsa Saade
02:31:32
;)
Julf Helsingius
02:34:18
I only have (loud) drunks out in the street, no ghosts or ghoulies
Elsa Saade
02:36:12
flip
Julie Hedlund
02:36:15
Flip and Elsa
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:43:05
It is also a matter that the current ATRT3 is also looking at FYI
Maxim Alzoba
02:43:13
dark, silent and cold steet outside, ghosts went home
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:43:28
they why we are has been outlined by Kieth
Pam Little, RrSG
02:43:29
@Keith, I would like to raise an AOB re “Invitation to Provide Feedback on the ICANN Board’s Proposed Public Interest Framework"
Flip Petillion
02:43:30
Thanks Keith
Flip Petillion
02:43:44
Thanks Elsa and Julie
Elsa Saade
02:45:20
great point Pam!
Elsa Saade
02:45:25
i’d be happy to help
Pam Little, RrSG
02:46:04
Thanks, Elsa
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:46:37
Sub Pro appreciates the work on this letter and looks forward to some response once sent
Marie Pattullo
02:48:09
Q: was the letter on the 2 non-adopted EPDP phase 1 recs sent?
Maxim Alzoba
02:48:44
ccNSO slate for CSC is not ready (should be ready soon)
Marika Konings
02:49:09
@Marie - yes, the council is awaiting a response from the Board.
Marie Pattullo
02:49:18
Thanks Marika!
Flip Petillion
02:49:24
1 AOB
Michele Neylon
02:49:29
ICANN travel was in touch with me weeks ago
Carlos Gutierrez / PC
02:49:34
which Friday? before or after?
Julf Helsingius
02:49:36
Same here
Michele Neylon
02:49:38
After
Carlos Gutierrez / PC
02:49:44
No after 4 me
Carlos Gutierrez / PC
02:49:45
txs
Marika Konings
02:50:04
Rooms will be in the Doubletree
Michele Neylon
02:50:07
It’ll be the hotel beside ICANN’s offices
Michele Neylon
02:50:09
It always is
Elsa Saade
02:50:11
thanks a lot all! until the next time
Marie Pattullo
02:50:13
During Julf -the last day
Flip Petillion
02:50:16
OK Thanks
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:50:17
Bye for now...
Mary Wong
02:50:20
@Flip, thanks for the feedback. We’ll take that to our colleagues.
Maxim Alzoba
02:50:20
bye all
Pam Little, RrSG
02:50:21
Thanks everyone
Tatiana Tropina
02:50:29
thanks all, bye