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ICANN RP's Personal Meeting Room - Shared screen with speaker view
Nita
37:53
hello
Bertrand de LA CHAPELLE
37:56
hi all.
echaumont
37:59
Hello everyone
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
38:09
Many of us are switching ovee from the SubPro WG Call now
Katarina
38:11
hello
Natalia Dulkowska
38:22
hello!
Aris Ignacio
38:38
hello everyone!
Benjamin Akinmoyeje (Namibia)
38:49
Hello Everyone
Roberto
39:11
Hi all - busy call - I see 140+ participants!
MARIANA.VIDOTTI
39:48
Hello everyone
Donna Austin, Neustar
40:29
Yes, Please let Ozan when you would like the slides to be moved on.
Alfredo Calderon (ISOCPR)
40:33
Saludos a todos / Hello to everyone.
Sivasubramanian M
40:49
on a train, with intermittent connectivity
sveta
40:59
Hello everyone!
Jothan Frakes
41:05
popular topic, good to indicate how robust the engagement from registries and registrars is
CMBARA
42:51
Hello everyone
Danko Jevtović iPad
45:42
Hi all, I am late a bit, sorry
Ria Otanes
46:13
welcome1
Maxim Alzoba
47:06
spam is out of ICANNs remit, and not necessarily has bad payload
Michael R. Graham
49:33
@Maxim -- But to the extent the DNS facilitates SPAM and other abuses, it is within ICANN's remit to accept responsibility and consider reasonable steps to prevent or limit such misuse.
Sivasubramanian M
49:48
Why is spam out of ICANN's remit?
Michele Neylon
50:05
it’s content
Volker Greimann
50:05
Why is it inside the remit?
Volker Greimann
50:20
ICANN does not regulate mail servers
Jody Kolker
50:28
+1 Volker - what is in the remit?
Volker Greimann
50:31
ICANN does not regulate webhosters
Sivasubramanian M
50:44
Because it happens within the DNS
Owen Smigelski (Namecheap)
50:55
@Sivasubramanian: See ICANN’s website about why spam it outside of its scope https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/spam-2013-05-03-en
Volker Greimann
51:01
so does ICANN regulate ecommerce?
Volker Greimann
51:09
It happens in the DNS after all
Volker Greimann
51:30
does ICANN regulate online dating sites?
Volker Greimann
51:39
They happen in the DNS after all
Volker Greimann
52:41
Registries (in gerneral) are in the position to invest? I know some who aren't
Danko Jevtović iPad
52:52
we need discussion to have clarity. we also have CCT review recommendations and SSR2 review in progress
Maxim Alzoba
53:21
is there a way to say that something is a crime before being committed? registrars and registries (non ccTLD ones) have legal obligations, and stopping services without a reason is a breach of a contract
Volker Greimann
53:50
these methods just shift the abuse to other TLDs. Just like stronger police presence in some areas shifts drug crime to other areas
Michele Neylon
53:54
Maxim - counterargument - do you really want to allow crime on your platform if you could have stopped it?
Maxim Alzoba
54:51
it might be worth checking the wealth of the cctlds with artificial intelligence ideas, and to realize that highly regulated TLDs registrations cost a lot, and this will affect customers
Jeff Neuman (Com Laude)
55:07
Of course the hundreds of brand TLDs are examples of TLDs where you do not have abuse
Michele Neylon
55:22
Maxim - and if you don’t mitigate abuse then nobody can send email
Michele Neylon
55:31
#justsaying
Michel TCHONANG
55:47
Thank for the presentation
Maxim Alzoba
56:11
Michele, it would be nice to be sure that it is going to be a crime, and if real LEAs contact us (local ones), we will do whatever prescribed in the law
Michael R. Graham
56:13
While dealing with SPAM may be outside the remit, addressing the misuse of the DNS to carry out activities such as SPAM, Phishing, and other abusive activities is not similarly outside the remit.
Michele Neylon
56:33
Maxim - remind me never to sell you any servers :)
Volker Greimann
56:49
By that argument everything is in the remit, Michael
Reg
57:04
“abuse does not mean the same thing to everyone” ah, but abuse is literally defined by the contracts CPs have with ICANN
Maxim Alzoba
57:05
Michele, I was a salesman, not buying :)
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
57:07
+1 Volker
Reg
57:58
Maxim, I think you got to the crux of it: what constitutes the “health” of a TLD?
Maxim Alzoba
58:05
everything happens over IP, does irlt mean ARPA is not fighting abuse?
Anne Aikman-Scalese
58:29
BAsed on the CCR-RT report, the Board has asked the community to develop a definition of DNS Abuse.
Jeff Neuman (Com Laude)
58:51
At the GDD Summit we did ask John Crane what steps ICANN itself takes with respect to .arpa and .int. It would be good to get that answer.
Maxim Alzoba
59:04
there is a huge difference between DNS infrastructure abuse, and IP payload misuse
Danko Jevtović iPad
59:08
+1 Anne
Volker Greimann
59:19
pharmin _is_ in the remit as it basically defines the term DNS abuse
Maxim Alzoba
01:00:43
Law Enforcement is limited to local Law enforcement
Maxim Alzoba
01:01:18
LEAs from. outside is at the best third parties
Jeff Neuman (Com Laude)
01:01:19
Al - THe community has already defined malicious domain name abuse. See https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/filefield_12530/rap-wg-final-report-29may10-en.pdf
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:01:37
@Anne, I think it's interesting that the CCT-RT opined all over the place on "DNS Abuse" without a concrete definition. Isn't that odd? Seems like if you're going to offer a bunch of recommendations on something, you should know what you're talking about.
Jeff Neuman (Com Laude)
01:01:51
It distinguishes between "Registration abuse" and "use abuse"
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:01:54
ICANN has a lot of similar definitions in existance it could have relied on.
Jeff Neuman (Com Laude)
01:02:03
I know it was a decade ago, but it seems to have been forgotten
Michael R. Graham
01:02:08
@Volker -- Not everything, but where the DNS is an enabling element I think ICANN has a responsibility to explore its role and possible prevention.
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:02:16
(like what Jeff said...and the definition of "security threats" in the RA)
Reg
01:02:22
+1 Kristine
Maxim Alzoba
01:02:50
following requests of other countries LEAs might lead to treason charges
Reg
01:02:52
Michael Graham: the DNS enables everything that happens on the internet; what do you mean by "enabling"?
Volker Greimann
01:04:15
DNS enables the use of the WWW. Everything
Donna Austin, Chair RySG
01:04:26
If folks have questions they would like to ask the presenters please use the normal protocol by identifying <QUESTION> and we'll try to capture those.
Laureen Kapin (GAC, PSWG)
01:09:57
The CCT Review Report referred specifically to both DNS Abuse and DNS Security Abuse. Here is relevant excerpt: “DNS Abuse” is a term used by the Review Team that refers to “intentionally deceptive, conniving, or unsolicited activities that actively make use of the DNS and/or the procedures used to register domain names” (see p. 3 of the “New gTLD Program Safeguards Against DNS Abuse: Revised Report” referenced below). “DNS Security Abuse” in the context of this report refers to specific, technical forms of abusive behavior: malware distribution, phishing, pharming, botnet command-and-control, and spam in the DNS. For more on how abuse has been characterized by the ICANN Community, see the Registration Abuse Policies Working Group’s Final Report (29 May 2010), accessed 3 August 2018, https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/filefield_12530/rap-wg-final-report-29may10-en.pdf
Volker Greimann
01:10:58
Note that the review team definition is not an ICANN consensus position
Volker Greimann
01:11:20
not necessarily at least
Kristine Dorrain (Amazon Registry)
01:12:08
Re slide 8 - recent blog post that explains this a bit more: https://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2019/10/top-myths-about-content-moderation.htm
Reg
01:12:22
“intentionally deceptive, conniving, or unsolicited activities that actively make use of the DNS and/or the procedures used to register domain names” So, registering reglevy.net by someone else might be intentionally deceptive but could also be unsolicited so—it’s DNS abuse? what about my current domain, reglevy.com. I’m a conniving kind of person; is that DNS abuse??
Danko Jevtović iPad
01:13:02
its not consensus position, but it is community selected team, same as current SSR2-RT
Volker Greimann
01:13:08
this definition puts everything under that label
Jeff Neuman (Com Laude)
01:13:48
Policy is developed through policy development processes only. Review Teams can certainly make recommendation for future policy development. Both types of activities are important for our community, but they are not substitutes for each other.
Michele Neylon
01:14:28
+1 Jeff
Maxim Alzoba
01:14:34
imagine ICANN. org being shutted down due to a spam notification (sending news...)
Danko Jevtović iPad
01:14:38
Yes Jeff regarding pdp
Michele Neylon
01:14:50
Danko - consensus policy is a very different animal
Owen Smigelski (Namecheap)
01:15:32
+1 Jeff
Danko Jevtović iPad
01:15:36
Sure Michele. I am just saying we need to talk and we need clarity
Jeff Neuman (Com Laude)
01:18:47
So, to clarify as an example. The Subsequent Procedures PDP is taking each of the applicable Recommendations of the CCT-RT and feeding it into our Policy Development Process. It is imperative that this group takes all of the recommendations into consideration. However, that does not mean that the output of the PDP will affirm (or not) all of the recommendations of the CCT-RT nor does it mean that every recommendation will be implemented. What it means is that we will seriously consider them and try our best to come up with consensus policies to address the concerns raised.
Reg
01:24:03
“Additional Best Practices” #1: subvert due process
Sarah Wyld
01:24:31
+1 Reg
Volker Greimann
01:26:00
better call these "pratices"
Anne Aikman-Scalese
01:27:45
@Jeff - yes, but as a matter of governance in relation to Review Teams, there are some recommendations that get adopted directly by the ICANN Board, are there not? Then with respect to PDP policy, there can also be GAC Advice to the Board, SSAC Advice to the Board, and ALAC Advice to the Board. Among these, GAC Consensus Advice has special status under the Revised ByLaws and it takes a 60% vote of the Board to act against such advice. As to PDP Policy recommended by the GNSO, under the ByLaws, it takes a 2/3 vote of the Directors to act against such PDP Policy recommendations. So the whole policy process is a bit more complicated than saying that what is determined via PDP is the only thing that governs. Ultimately, Board action is critical.
Danko Jevtović iPad
01:28:55
And it's fact that some is enforced by RaR contract
Michele Neylon
01:30:06
love the sci fi reference :)
Danko Jevtović iPad
01:30:21
But for me discussion is important to understand all issues and all positions. We are bottom-up organizations and we need to work together, not to push solutions
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:30:35
Excellentg indeed
nigel.hickson
01:30:41
This has been a really good dialogue; thanks
Brian King
01:30:48
Thank you for those insights, Brian and Ben.
David Mackey
01:30:54
Great presentation! thank you.
Nick Wenban-Smith, Nominet
01:31:01
Really good presentations and chat commentary
Danko Jevtović iPad
01:31:06
l am looking forward to f2f in Montreal
Jothan Frakes
01:31:18
good presentation thank you
Jean Nahum
01:31:22
It is really interesting, Thank you
Abdalmonem Galila
01:31:23
informative and I will listen to it again
Anne Aikman-Scalese
01:31:29
Many thanks Donna et al. Very informative.
Prateek Pathak
01:31:53
Very informative!
Matt Serlin (Brandsight)
01:31:57
Thanks to all of the presenters…very thorough information
Jean Nahum
01:31:58
Please share it to me
Mohit
01:32:08
Excellent slides.
Michael R. Graham
01:32:31
I'm using "enabling" in the sense of abusive actiions, not "facilitating" the WWW.
Mohit
01:32:57
Looking forward to F2F session in Montreal
Mary Wong
01:33:12
All - the slides for this webinar (and all other webinars during Prep Week) are posted here: https://meetings.icann.org/en/montreal66-prep-week
Mary Wong
01:33:33
Staff will also post a link back to this webinar and the slides from the ICANN66 schedule.
Michel TCHONANG
01:33:37
ok thank you very much
Aris Ignacio
01:33:47
very informative.. 🙂
Aris Ignacio
01:34:00
thanks a lot for this..
sveta
01:34:05
thank you. very informative
Alberto Soto
01:34:10
Thanks, bye bye!!
Michele Neylon
01:34:18
NB: ICANN’s remit isn’t the same as what we would do
Michael R. Graham
01:34:43
Excellent presentation. Perhaps begin with addressing the "remit" issue.
Bertrand de LA CHAPELLE
01:34:47
<QUESTION>: any information of how the session in Montreal will be organized? Agenda, …?
Volker Greimann
01:34:56
we may always do more voluntarily - and many of us do
Michele Neylon
01:35:20
Volker - exactly
Martin Sutton
01:35:25
Really helpful webinar, good start to the conversations expected at ICANN66
Martin Sutton
01:35:56
thanks to all involved
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:36:21
Yes looking forward to more in ICANN Montreal meeting... Thanks everyone Bye for now...
Michele Neylon
01:36:33
ciao
Nadira AL-ARAJ
01:36:37
Thank you
Yazid AKANHO
01:36:39
thanks
Alejandra Reynoso [.gt]
01:36:40
Thank you! Bye!
ryerbanga
01:36:41
thank you