00:42:15 Paul McGrady: I'm here. 00:42:45 Paul McGrady: I am connected by dial out on my phone since I will be mobile shortly. Not sure why you couldn't hear me via my phone. Weird. 00:43:34 Paul McGrady: I bet I'm having the same problem 00:43:54 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: I suspect so Paul 00:43:58 Paul McGrady: Should I hang up and call back in? 00:45:29 Terri Agnew: We will make sure she hears the greetings. So sweet! 00:45:40 Paul McGrady: @Staff, what should I do if you can't hear me via phone? 00:45:52 Andrea Glandon: @Paul, yes, please disconnect and try again 00:45:53 Terri Agnew: @Paul, would you like us to dial out to you? 00:45:58 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Congratulations Tatiana!!! 00:46:02 Paul McGrady: Yes, lets try that. 00:46:06 Paul McGrady: 312 882 5020 00:46:08 Pam Little, RrSG: Congrats, Tatiana 00:46:11 Elsa Saade: YES TANYA! ❤️ 00:46:15 Elsa Saade: congrats 00:46:17 Marika Konings: Welcome to the Netherlands! 00:46:18 Philippe Fouquart: Congratulations! 00:46:20 Maxim Alzoba: formally it is still EU 00:46:21 Tatiana Tropina: thank you guys :-) 00:46:23 Paul McGrady: Congrats Tatiana 00:46:26 maarten.simon: Congratulations and welcome to The Netherlands ! 00:46:30 Terri Agnew: @Paul, we are dialing out to you. 00:46:35 Julf Helsingius: Tatiana: Have you already got a new umbrella and some gore-tex? :) 00:46:39 Flip Petillion: Proficiat Tatiana ! 00:46:53 Tatiana Tropina: @Maarten, totally love it here in NL 00:47:20 Tatiana Tropina: Julf, got Rains trench coat, wondering if there’s any umbrella that can survive real rain 00:47:21 Marie Pattullo: Fantastic news Tanya! 00:47:51 Paul McGrady: I'm dialed back in. Let me know when it is a good time to test the line. 00:48:36 Tatiana Tropina: Marie, thank you! 00:51:02 Michele Neylon: putting project review at the end is a good idea 00:54:25 Marika Konings: Please note that you can also download all documents here: https://community.icann.org/x/MY-kBg 00:54:38 Michele Neylon: FYI if you see two of me it’s normal 00:54:49 Michele Neylon: I’m connected via my laptop as well as my phone 00:54:52 Maxim Alzoba: which one of you is writing? 00:55:00 Michele Neylon: Both :) 00:55:05 Carlos Gutierrez / PC: Same here 00:56:47 Terri Agnew: Noted Michele and Carlos 00:59:43 Michele Neylon: did audio die? 00:59:50 Keith Drazek (Verisign): No, still working for me. 00:59:53 Carlos Gutierrez / PC: no 00:59:59 Carlos Gutierrez / PC: working in my phone 01:00:01 Maxim Alzoba: no, phone audio is working for me 01:00:01 Andrea Glandon: No, still here 01:00:03 Marie Pattullo: Me too. 01:00:14 Michele Neylon: Hmm patchy phone coverage :( 01:00:43 Keith Drazek (Verisign): @Paul: Do you see any concerns with the timing for the URS/UDRP referral item vis-a-vis the RPM WG? 01:01:37 Mary Wong: @Keith, @Paul, all - the CCT-RT recs are on the agenda for the RPM chairs-staff-liaison planning call tomorrow 01:01:49 Keith Drazek (Verisign): Thanks Mary 01:02:05 Paul McGrady: No, since the Work Track will very likely be done with its work before Phase 2 is underway The Work Track will have a very narrow remit and we can give them a very short timeframe. 01:02:07 Michele Neylon: +1 Pam 01:02:19 Maxim Alzoba: +1 01:02:29 Carlos Gutierrez / PC: +1 Pam 01:02:39 Philippe Fouquart: Agree. Let's send it now. 01:02:41 Terri Agnew: @Michele, it might be best to join via zoom for audio. Is that possible today? 01:02:50 Paul McGrady: @Keith - apologies, it looks like I answered the wrong question. See Mary's relevant response! 01:03:08 Michele Neylon: @Terri I’m using Zoom but I think the data connection was patchy 01:03:36 Terri Agnew: Do you want us to dial out to you via telephone (not using zoom?) 01:03:55 Michele Neylon: Terri - no it’s fine for now 01:04:02 Michele Neylon: If it starts playing up I’ll let you know 01:04:04 Michele Neylon: thanks 01:04:52 Terri Agnew: Sounds good 01:05:14 Paul McGrady: @Keith - plus the interoperability issues between the URS and UDRP are Phase 2 issues, I suspect. 01:05:25 Pam Little, RrSG: No worries, Thanks 01:09:49 Maxim Alzoba: their immunity has more power than our policies 01:11:44 Carlos Gutierrez / PC: there is no single or "usual" immunity for IGOs as per expert study @paul @maxim 01:12:26 Maxim Alzoba: I think it is up to a particular government participating in IGO creation 01:13:27 Mary Wong: @Maxim, just to note, that’s not the case. It’s up to the court where a lawsuit is filed, as to what rule of international law it applies to the question of immunity from its jurisdiction. 01:13:39 Marie Pattullo: Really support the first bullet with the specific skill-set / experience, Paul. 01:13:59 Marie Pattullo: This is such a complex legal area - we need that knowledge to get it right. 01:16:29 Maxim Alzoba: @Mary, it is a complex issue, not all jurisdictions agree to follow decisions of all courts (might change in some future … not now) 01:16:43 Paul McGrady: @Carlos, will defer to you on that, but at least it gives IGOs options 01:16:58 Paul McGrady: @Elsa, I didn't want to leave you out though! 01:17:22 Mary Wong: @Maxim, yes it is a complex issue. There are various international rules that could apply, and each court may choose differently. 01:18:40 Elsa Saade: @paul thanks :))) but i ddnt really do mch 01:18:44 Elsa Saade: if any 01:19:38 Elsa Saade: is that procedural though? 01:21:03 Mary Wong: @Elsa, basically, it is certainly possible that a subsequent GNSO Consensus Policy will change a prior policy. That is what this langauge tries to recognize, especially as Rec 1 (which the Council approved) clearly says there should not be a new proesdure. 01:21:38 Elsa Saade: but writing down that possibility is making it much easier and acceptable to entertain that possibility 01:21:51 Elsa Saade: i completely disagree with including this paragraph 01:22:05 Elsa Saade: following gnso procedure 01:24:00 Tatiana Tropina: Oh I was also not fine with representation section but the procedure got me so hooked that I forgot to say it! :-) 01:26:35 Elsa Saade: then I don’t see why we as a GNSO council had to approve those first 4 recommendations in the first place! 01:27:19 Elsa Saade: precisely! +1 Tanya 01:27:59 Paul McGrady: Agree Tatiana. I think we are on the same page 01:28:12 Paul McGrady: Thanks Keith. Will do. 01:28:42 Tatiana Tropina: Elsa, Paul, Keith: :-) 01:29:12 Paul McGrady: I would really like to get this done before I am put out to pasture 01:29:14 Elsa Saade: Thanks again for the work done on the document!! 01:31:22 Carlos Gutierrez / PC: My apologies to the Chair, I raised my hand to late for the previous point. My Question: do we keep the proposed schedule? for vote in Montreal? 01:33:01 Keith Drazek (Verisign): Sorry Carlos, I missed you. Yes. We still need to engage with the GAC and IGOs, so Montreal should be our target. Would love to get it done sooner, but that's probably not realistic. 01:33:47 Carlos Gutierrez / PC: @Keith @smallGroup please proceed with redraft ASAP 01:34:19 Carlos Gutierrez / PC: my humble suggestion 01:38:56 Michele Neylon: sorry about audio 01:39:33 Keith Drazek (Verisign): No problem, we captured your comments. 01:39:40 Michele Neylon: You did thanks 01:42:47 Pam Little, RrSG: Flip 01:42:50 Marie Pattullo: Flip. 01:44:05 Marika Konings: I can find it but I don’t think it was shared yet 01:45:47 Marika Konings: Note that the following language was included as a footnote to one of the EPDP Phase 1 recs in the Final Report: “The topic of accuracy as related to GDPR compliance is expected to be considered further as well as the WHOIS Accuracy Reporting System.” 01:45:52 Pam Little, RrSG: ARS is not a policy 01:45:57 Keith Drazek (Verisign): I think the ARS was actually not a policy. 01:46:39 Michele Neylon: The ARS was a tool developed a few years ago via compliance I think 01:46:44 Michele Neylon: It was *never* a policy 01:46:50 Marika Konings: If I recall well, ARS is the result of the WHOIS RT1 recommendations and GAC advice. 01:47:39 Maxim Alzoba: ARS was designed without taking into the account GDPR, was it? 01:47:48 Michele Neylon: yup 01:47:52 Marie Pattullo: Apologies for the wrong terminology, Michele. Too tired. 01:47:53 Pam Little, RrSG: Here is the RDS 2 Review final report: 01:47:53 Pam Little, RrSG: https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/rds-whois2-review-03sep19-en.pdf 01:48:15 Michele Neylon: Predates ICANN paying attention to laws on privacy etc 01:49:43 Marie Pattullo: We need accuracy under the GDPR, no? 01:50:11 Michele Neylon: No - as a data subject I have the right to force a controller to correct my data 01:50:17 Maxim Alzoba: accuracy does not equal to accessibility, it can be pretty accurate (as required by GDPR) but closed 01:50:38 Michele Neylon: But some people are trying to twist that Principle around to force the data subject to provide “accurate” data 01:50:45 Marie Pattullo: There was so much good work in the RDS RT though, we shouldn't lose it. 01:50:46 Michele Neylon: which is a completely different conceopt 01:51:03 Marie Pattullo: Thanks Pam! 01:51:28 Michele Neylon: (One of my persona will be disconnecting in about 5 - 10 m minutes 01:51:46 Terri Agnew: @Michele, noted 01:51:46 Marika Konings: For those interested, here is the Bird & Bird memo on accuracy: “https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/102138857/ICANN%20-%20Memo%20on%20Accuracy.docx?version=1&modificationDate=1550152014000&api=v2” 01:51:48 Rafik Dammak: @marie the EPDP team has disagreement about accuracy , as for many in GDPR it is for data subject as right 01:52:27 Michele Neylon: The EPDP group is debating a lot of these topics 01:52:39 Elsa Saade: i think it’s also important to look back at the documents that the epdp charter was based on. i don’t think accuracy was mentioned anywhere there (e.g. temp spec) 01:52:41 Michele Neylon: for Council to muddy the waters further wouldn’t be ideal 01:53:09 Rafik Dammak: EPDP team is pressed to deliver its first report and there are many areas to cover. 01:53:25 Marie Pattullo: I'm not trying to "muddy" anything - we just thought asking questions on what they're doing too would help everyone. 01:53:49 Flip Petillion: Hope EPDP team will indeed clarify. Thanks 01:54:31 Rubens Kuhl: If ARS is unlawful, then there is no other option than shutting it down and considering a replacement tool operating on different methods towards the same goal of increasing accuracy. 01:55:14 Marika Konings: Please note that accuracy is a priority 2 item for the EPDP Team’s phase 2 and similar differences of opinions seem to exist as have been expressed here. The direction on what the EPDP Team is expected to consider is just the footnote in phase 1 for now. 01:56:21 Elsa Saade: it also doesn’t say that it should be considered within epdp phase 2, if I’m not mistaken 01:56:50 Elsa Saade: in that footnote 01:57:22 Pam Little, RrSG: So we can just let Goran know it still work in progress. 01:58:46 Elsa Saade: thanks a lot Keith for entertaining my question 01:58:51 Elsa Saade: and thanks Marika 02:02:42 Terri Agnew: Karen’s presentation has been added to the wiki agenda page. 02:08:46 Maxim Alzoba: @Karen, do you think that AGB is in the area of procedures to be checked for compatibility with GDPR too or is it a step for past SubPro /past RPM PDPs? 02:11:41 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Seems very close date at this stage... 02:13:05 Elsa Saade: thanks Karen for the presentation 02:14:20 Maxim Alzoba: it was about policies and processes (and AGB is the latter) 02:14:32 Maxim Alzoba: thanks 02:15:25 Pam Little, RrSG: I think Rec#27 only covers existing policies and procedures. 02:15:39 Maxim Alzoba: ok 02:15:40 Rubens Kuhl: Should this effort cover WHOIS ARS ? 02:15:54 Maxim Alzoba: +1 @Rubens, it is a good question 02:16:12 Pam Little, RrSG: @Rubens, ARS is neither a policy nor procedure? 02:16:21 Pam Little, RrSG: It’s just a tool 02:16:30 Pam Little, RrSG: Thanks, Karen 02:16:32 karen.lentz: Thank you 02:16:40 Maxim Alzoba: using ARS is a procedure 02:16:41 Rubens Kuhl: Not a policy: sure. But could be seen as a procedure. 02:16:52 Pam Little, RrSG: Rafik 02:25:57 Keith Drazek (Verisign): All, we're running over so I'm going to ask everyone to hang on for an extra 10 minutes today. 02:26:55 Julf Helsingius: It is already 0:47 AM here, but we'll survive... 02:27:03 Maxim Alzoba: 1.48 02:27:12 Julf Helsingius: Ouch! 02:27:20 Maxim Alzoba: are we not to be expelled from zoom room? 02:27:51 Elsa Saade: uh-oh! 1 and 2 am... the commitment Maxim and Julf! 02:28:52 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Can I ask the small Team / Council when and how any interaction or seeking of feedback on PDP 3.0 from the outside of GNSO but Interested parts of the wider ICANN Community (such as ALAC) might occur? this can be a question with notice... 02:29:12 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: I suspect GAC ewould be interested as well 02:29:51 Marie Pattullo: The witching hour passed us by without too many ghosts & ghoulies, Elsa ;-). 02:30:23 Elsa Saade: lool! 02:30:48 Marie Pattullo: (Although I haven't looked in the garden. Who knows). 02:31:21 Elsa Saade: they’re not always too bad (ghosts and ghoulies) perspective perspective!!! 02:31:32 Elsa Saade: ;) 02:34:18 Julf Helsingius: I only have (loud) drunks out in the street, no ghosts or ghoulies 02:36:12 Elsa Saade: flip 02:36:15 Julie Hedlund: Flip and Elsa 02:43:05 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: It is also a matter that the current ATRT3 is also looking at FYI 02:43:13 Maxim Alzoba: dark, silent and cold steet outside, ghosts went home 02:43:28 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: they why we are has been outlined by Kieth 02:43:29 Pam Little, RrSG: @Keith, I would like to raise an AOB re “Invitation to Provide Feedback on the ICANN Board’s Proposed Public Interest Framework" 02:43:30 Flip Petillion: Thanks Keith 02:43:44 Flip Petillion: Thanks Elsa and Julie 02:45:20 Elsa Saade: great point Pam! 02:45:25 Elsa Saade: i’d be happy to help 02:46:04 Pam Little, RrSG: Thanks, Elsa 02:46:37 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Sub Pro appreciates the work on this letter and looks forward to some response once sent 02:48:09 Marie Pattullo: Q: was the letter on the 2 non-adopted EPDP phase 1 recs sent? 02:48:44 Maxim Alzoba: ccNSO slate for CSC is not ready (should be ready soon) 02:49:09 Marika Konings: @Marie - yes, the council is awaiting a response from the Board. 02:49:18 Marie Pattullo: Thanks Marika! 02:49:24 Flip Petillion: 1 AOB 02:49:29 Michele Neylon: ICANN travel was in touch with me weeks ago 02:49:34 Carlos Gutierrez / PC: which Friday? before or after? 02:49:36 Julf Helsingius: Same here 02:49:38 Michele Neylon: After 02:49:44 Carlos Gutierrez / PC: No after 4 me 02:49:45 Carlos Gutierrez / PC: txs 02:50:04 Marika Konings: Rooms will be in the Doubletree 02:50:07 Michele Neylon: It’ll be the hotel beside ICANN’s offices 02:50:09 Michele Neylon: It always is 02:50:11 Elsa Saade: thanks a lot all! until the next time 02:50:13 Marie Pattullo: During Julf -the last day 02:50:16 Flip Petillion: OK Thanks 02:50:17 Cheryl Langdon-Orr: Bye for now... 02:50:20 Mary Wong: @Flip, thanks for the feedback. We’ll take that to our colleagues. 02:50:20 Maxim Alzoba: bye all 02:50:21 Pam Little, RrSG: Thanks everyone 02:50:29 Tatiana Tropina: thanks all, bye