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051040043 - EPDP-Phase 2 Team Call - Shared screen with speaker view
Sarah Wyld (RrSG)
35:25
Hello team
Terri Agnew
37:11
Please review ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior here: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/expected-standards-2016-06-28-en
Terri Agnew
43:49
Laureen Kapin will be telephone only today.
Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC)
45:40
@Milton we all agree that the evolution mechanism should never tackle any policy issues. Policy matters should go through its normal path i.e. through the gNSO policy process
Brian King (IPC)
47:45
+1 Hadia. That's a clear safeguard we're trying to put around the MfE. No policy.
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
48:20
No, Hadia, it’s pretty clear that policy changes are what we want
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
48:42
you want, not we want ;-)
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
50:41
I think we should abandon the term “evolution”, we should say “updates” or “improvement”
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
50:56
“Evolution” implies mutation and alteration of the life form
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
52:28
Too bad, Alan
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
52:43
That’s not the model. You are going to have to give up on that one
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
53:26
ACs do not make names policy. They advise.
James Bladel (RrSG)
53:48
Alan - That’s the remit of the GNSO. From the ICANN Bylaws: “There shall be a policy-development body known as the Generic Names Supporting Organization (the "Generic Names Supporting Organization" or "GNSO", and collectively with the ASO and ccNSO, the "Supporting Organizations")), which shall be responsible for developing and recommending to the Board substantive policies relating to generic top-level domains and other responsibilities of the GNSO as set forth in these Bylaws.”
James Bladel (RrSG)
54:22
If you want to have a decisional role in gTLD policy, please join the GNSO and disband the ALAC.
Sarah Wyld (RrSG)
54:55
Lost Thomas?
Sarah Wyld (RrSG)
55:09
Thomas please start over your comments
Terri Agnew
55:14
@Thomas, your audio is cutting in and out
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
55:15
yes
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
55:19
but start over
Terri Agnew
55:48
Seems to be stable at the moment (Thomas’s audio)
Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC)
56:48
All what we are talking about is a mechanism for improvements in reaction to implementation matters in relation to 5 explicit topics. No one is talking about a mechanism for doing policy.
Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC)
57:00
*relation
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
57:43
ALAC is indeed contesting that
Alan Greenberg (ALAC)
58:06
@Thomas, Yes, THIS is policy. The question is whether the the items identified for evolution is in fact policy or not. If it is, then we need a PDP.
Mark Svancarek (BC)
58:17
ACs and SOs do have a role in advising ICANN Ord on Implementation of GNSO Policy - their role in any MfE would need to be well-defined
Mark Svancarek (BC)
58:27
Org
Alan Greenberg (ALAC)
59:55
If the changes are POLICY, then a GGP is not a solution. So if a GGP is acceptable, then the issues are NOT policy.
Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC)
59:58
@Milton if we agree on the topics that the mechanism is going to address then we can be sure that no policy issues would be included. In addition the gNSO/CPs could certainly flag an issue that they see as policy
Alan Greenberg (ALAC)
01:02:29
@Milton, That is NOT what I said.
Alan Greenberg (ALAC)
01:03:30
No. I want to limit the evolution mechasm to NON-POLICY.
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
01:05:05
then you should accept the GGP model, Alan
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
01:06:30
I’ve had conversations with Amp, who was the unfortunate one on our team but can’t be here today. He knows what I am saying
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
01:06:41
Amr, not Amp
Brian King (IPC)
01:06:42
most groups have rejected the GGP model
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
01:06:49
Nope
Sarah Wyld (RrSG)
01:07:10
Last I heard, CPH was still willing to support the GGP
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
01:07:26
of course Sarah. it’s the same division
Sarah Wyld (RrSG)
01:07:50
Thanks (as always) to the Staff team for your ongoing hard work there!
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
01:07:53
the difference is that CPH and NCSG were willing to entertain additional proposals but now we are not
Berry Cobb
01:10:28
Rec #1 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iWMJCdnBhu5rk7VTceV0ifPvFy0-eIyE/edit
Brian King (IPC)
01:10:31
@Milton, Amr was willing to entertain additional proposals, and was in fact drafting them, as of yesterday afternoon. Rough night?
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
01:11:08
Amr has conveyed to me that he is done with that
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
01:11:45
Especially after staff did not even accept changing must to should in Rec 7
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
01:12:16
which is an absurdly simple and non-damaging request. We get nothing, you get nothing
Sarah Wyld (RrSG)
01:16:12
I saw some comments already that were unclear about what exactly it referred to; I left a comment on the comment asking for clarification
Sarah Wyld (RrSG)
01:20:01
I don't have the specific info at hand
Sarah Wyld (RrSG)
01:20:04
happy to wait for the response in the doc, thanks
Brian King (IPC)
01:20:41
Sounds good, Marika.
Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC)
01:22:17
+1 Brian Sounds good to me too
Berry Cobb
01:22:44
REc #2 - https://docs.google.com/document/d/127RbEGY3hlClG6vUG-i5H77LmfOXR9E5/edit
Sarah Wyld (RrSG)
01:22:52
Thanks Berry
Janis Karklins (Chair)
01:23:05
Berry, pls put the text of the rec 2 on the screen as well
Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC)
01:23:09
Thanks Berry
Margie Milam (BC)
01:26:26
I’m dropping off - Steve DB will be my alternate for the rest of the call
Tara Whalen (SSAC)
01:27:05
I am also dropping off — Ben will cover for SSAC. Thanks!
Terri Agnew
01:27:59
noted for both
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
01:30:50
Who would make the de-accred decision and how?
Thomas Rickert (ISPCP)
01:40:13
There is a comparable discussion on IGOs when it comes to Rights Protection Mechanisms… This will be problematic....
Sarah Wyld (RrSG)
01:41:27
Welcome, Amr
Amr Elsadr (NCSG)
01:42:31
Thanks, Sarah.
Stephanie Perrin (NCSG)
01:44:40
This is a well known problem, and I see us walking blindly into it at this point. Brussels is busy, they are not going to take on the world.
Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC)
01:49:32
+1 its up to ICANN to decide who it would like to subcontract
Stephanie Perrin (NCSG)
01:50:16
ICANN marks its own homework all the time....
Stephanie Perrin (NCSG)
01:50:48
Not to be disrespectful or anything, but sometimes there is a reliance on the MS process to provide independence.
Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC)
01:52:17
we are talking about accrediting IGOs like WIPO to use the system
Marika Konings
01:58:42
For example, 2 refers to “• Consumer rights organizations granted a public policy task by law or delegation from a governmental entity"
Stephanie Perrin (NCSG)
02:13:41
Requests for confidentiality of the request MUST include the authority for that confidentiality
Stephanie Perrin (NCSG)
02:14:00
Not to be confused with the reason.
Brian King (IPC)
02:18:48
Just need to change that MAY to may. We're not doing P/P policy development here, so the normative language is inappropriate.
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
02:22:00
how about a link to the google doc, Berry?
Steve DelBianco (BC)
02:22:48
Right, Milton. The link in today’s agenda wiki does not work.
Sarah Wyld (RrSG)
02:22:54
I really felt that our legal advice was pretty clear on this topic
Stephanie Perrin (NCSG)
02:23:29
Shall we reexamine that legal advice?
Amr Elsadr (NCSG)
02:23:38
@Sarah: It was. +1
Berry Cobb
02:24:13
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PMZLtUUTFxS-c0C6e3ioPWxoyfGwDmus/edit
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
02:26:22
I also submitted individual comment
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
02:26:32
which was ignored as well
Sarah Wyld (RrSG)
02:29:27
I had the same question re whether the text in box would be included or not. Maybe a note could be added to the doc to make it super obvious for readers? thakns
Sarah Wyld (RrSG)
02:29:44
I mean a note in the box area itself
Marika Konings
02:30:31
@Sarah - thanks for that suggestion. We can do that.
James Bladel (RrSG)
02:30:40
Apologies, I have a hard stop at the top of the hour. THx.
Sarah Wyld (RrSG)
02:30:55
Thank you Marika
Chris Lewis-Evans (GAC)
02:31:47
I also have a hard stop i'm afraid
Milton Mueller (NCSG)
02:34:27
me too
Sarah Wyld (RrSG)
02:34:58
I support that question, thank you
Chris Lewis-Evans (GAC)
02:35:02
Thanks all
Sarah Wyld (RrSG)
02:35:08
Thanks, all!
Alan Woods (RySG)
02:35:19
Thanks all!
Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC)
02:35:39
Thank you all - bye for now