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051040011 GNSO Council Extraordinary meeting - Shared screen with speaker view
James Gannon
45:15
Hi All
David Olive
45:24
Welcome All
Philippe Fouquart
45:33
Hi everyone
Tatiana Tropina
45:38
Hi all!
Sebastien Ducos
46:12
I am here… I got kick out right when you called my name :)
Terri Agnew
46:19
Councilors, reminder to adjust chat to All Panelist and Attendees
Maxim Alzoba
46:56
Hello all
Scott McCormick
47:16
Here, having audio issues
Maxim Alzoba
47:44
it is still better than 0.30
Tatiana Tropina
47:53
Well :-) it is. But still hard
James Gannon
48:08
Im on my 2nd bottle of birthday wine so no commitment to be mentally here either
Steve Chan
48:37
Happy bday James, if today is the day!
Nathalie Peregrine
48:38
Please review ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior here: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/expected-standards-2016-06-28-en.
Tatiana Tropina
48:38
Happy Birthday, James. Have a lovely year
Marie Pattullo
48:44
Happy Birthday James!
James Gannon
49:21
One year older, not sure if Im one year wiser however!
Pam Little
50:34
@Maxim - 0.30 start time is really terrible.
Maxim Alzoba
51:15
@Pam, the worst is 1.30-5.30am window
Osvaldo Novoa
51:44
Very useful!!
Nathalie Peregrine
52:09
Recording is hyperlinked on the agenda and can be found here: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://icann.zoom.us/rec/share/9PUlJZX79FlLXIWOz3z4d4hxNdzAX6a82iEZqaVemh7MQt0y4ptxqEaDp-1nPJYH?startTime=1594332382000__;!!PtGJab4!ugdybTSyKFGxjATAO7wIuSB0cMPeu-M9K7MbYeyqgaq_9WttgWp4Sc3mwPTSEYOTC1DPuAQ$
Tom Dale
52:11
The pre-recorded presentation was good.
Pam Little
53:14
Good to hear all the positive feedback about the pre-recorded presentation. Kudos to Berry.
Philippe Fouquart
53:27
Thanks Berry. Apologies for being picky, but it's so easy to get worked up by a neat gantt :)
Philippe Fouquart
53:45
And again that was extremely helpful!
Carlton Samuels
01:01:56
Howdy all. My apologies for late joining.
James Gannon
01:02:27
Agree with Keith on the outcome first then the methods and decision making processes
Nathalie Peregrine
01:02:35
Welcome Carlton! Please send your messages to All Panelists and Attendees for councilors AND observers to be able to read you, thank you!
Maxim Alzoba
01:02:50
will we be able to mingle with the actual interface?
Carlton Samuels
01:03:35
Thank you Nathalie. So noted.
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
01:04:25
PDP, Council, Board, Implementation
James Gannon
01:06:31
For me and potentially Flip will it be possible to distribute the MPP file on a monthly basis?
Flip Petillion
01:07:08
Yes, indeed good idea + indicate changes if possible - Thanks !
James Gannon
01:07:39
I’ll even send you a printed A3 Flip =)
Nathalie Peregrine
01:07:40
To councilors: Please send your messages to All Panelists and Attendees for councilors AND observers to be able to read you, thank you!
Maxim Alzoba
01:08:01
A0 for Flip
James Gannon
01:08:16
My new printer can only do A3+ =)
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
01:20:47
My recommendation is to issue the call for drafting team members no later than our August meeting, and sooner if possible.
Steve Chan
01:20:56
Keith, hand up for IDNs
Maxim Alzoba
01:26:01
phase 2 RPM is independent from other processes so far
Marie Pattullo
01:26:59
Couldn't terminology changes be done at any time that staff has bandwidth?
Marie Pattullo
01:27:21
(Not just re RPMs).
Marie Pattullo
01:28:35
Dependency will be: does the report mean that the URS as is be changed? If so, pointless to make changes now, waste of resources.
Marika Konings
01:28:41
@Marie - I think that is where the ‘confirm urgency of policies requiring terminology update’ come in.
Marika Konings
01:29:14
Is there an impact, for example, from a compliance perspective if terminology is not up to date. If yes, it may be urgent, if not, maybe less urgent?
Marie Pattullo
01:30:28
Thanks, Marika. Agree.
Ariel Liang
01:33:51
@John - good question. Recalling PDP 3.0 improvements, one of them is related to Liaison’s job duty. One of Liaison’s job is the following: The GNSO Council liaison is responsible for ensuring that the WG Chair(s) are informed about activities of the GNSO Council that have an impact on the Working Group. This includes not only actions taken with respect to substance related to the Working Group, but also any actions taken on matters upon which the Work Group depends or on which the Council depends on the Working Group.
Ariel Liang
01:34:22
So it makes sense to have the liaison to communicate such information to the WG and its leadership
John McElwaine
01:34:47
and if we notice something on the Radar and want to bring it to the Council's attention should we have process like requesting to be on the Agenda?
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
01:35:06
Makes sense John
Steve Chan
01:37:07
@John, thanks for allowing me to plug a planning that we’ve shared some time ago. This initially started as a Council leadership and staff document, we all agreed that the Council should have the opportunity to weigh into the planning process: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FSNlAHTjbWAzKcfltI7SWwzXda1NtKxfQ2k-t0oiGr8/edit
Steve Chan
01:38:10
So, that document can help you see what is being planned and you could add comments there, but also of course on the Council list, where it will likely get more Councilor eyes on the suggestion.
Marie Pattullo
01:40:01
But it's a stand-alone track, neither part of phase one or two, no?
John McElwaine
01:40:22
@Steve - thanks for this link. I added a comment.
Maxim Alzoba
01:42:44
new hand
Maxim Alzoba
01:43:39
no hand
Maxim Alzoba
01:43:50
not
Marie Pattullo
01:46:27
Do we need to reboot Maxim?
Maxim Alzoba
01:46:39
who knows
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:53:03
it’s more recently than that
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:53:30
the current implementation is unworkable
James Gannon
01:55:10
Yes we worked hard on this but the final report was not a practical solution
Pam Little
01:55:27
I will let Michele go first
Pam Little
01:56:39
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/whois-privacy-conflicts-procedure-2008-01-17-en
James Gannon
01:58:10
If we do revisit it the IAG would need to be reformed as most of the old members have left ICANN
Marika Konings
01:59:03
A charter was already adopted for the IAG - it is just waiting the launch for the call for volunteers.
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
01:59:17
Thanks Marika
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:59:35
The concept of the policy is fine - the “triggers” are the problem
Carlton Samuels
01:59:46
I came across this policy when I chaired the At-Large WG on WHOIS. I still think this must have come from a very cynical foundation!
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:59:58
Carlton - yup
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
02:00:02
it’s backwards
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
02:00:29
we argued about this for hours and hours
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
02:00:35
DPAs don’t work this way
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
02:00:39
we told them
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
02:00:43
they wouldn’t listen
James Gannon
02:00:57
And the suggestion for a law firm opinion was struck down in the IAG
Maxim Alzoba
02:00:57
DPAs give paid advice (fines and then explanations)
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
02:01:18
James - yeah - the law firm thing would have solved it
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
02:01:29
But some people wouldn’t let that
James Gannon
02:01:40
My first ever non CCWG contribution was that law firm text =)
Carlton Samuels
02:01:54
I can remember your very exasperated pronouncements when we had those informal ALAC-RyRs meetings
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
02:02:28
Carlton - this is one of the first ICANN policies I asked about when we signed our RAA 11 years ago
Carlton Samuels
02:03:48
@Michele flashbacks! LOL
Marika Konings
02:03:53
The charter that the Council adopted can be found here: https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/file/field-file-attach/draft-icann-procedure-whois-conflicts-iag-23jan18-en.pdf
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
02:04:04
Thanks Marika
Maxim Alzoba
02:04:28
example - all dead people should update their SOI
Pam Little
02:04:34
The Temp Spec and the subsequent EPDP are supposed to ensure ICANN contracts and policies compliant with privacy laws.
Marika Konings
02:04:53
Its mission would be to: “The ICANN Procedure For Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law Implementation Advisory Group (WHOIS Procedure IAG) is tasked to provide the GNSO Council with recommendations on how to address the comments and input that have been received in response to the public comment forum on the Revised ICANN Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law: Process and Next Steps. Recommendations made to the GNSO Council should be limited to determining whether modifications to the Revised ICANN Procedure for Handling WHOIS Conflicts with Privacy Law are necessary to address concerns raised through the public comment forum, including, for example, comments made in relation to revising existing triggers, developing new triggers, and ICANN review and resolution timing issues, provided these are not inconsistent with the underlying policy recommendations.”
James Gannon
02:05:40
I would be concerned we would end up in the same situation as the previous IAG
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
02:08:38
How can we kill a policy?
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
02:08:43
or do we have to replace it?
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
02:09:40
We all need to remember that GDPR is not the only privacy law that contracted parties will need to deal with.
Marika Konings
02:09:41
@Michele - I think you may need a PDP to either cancel it or replace it?
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
02:09:55
Marika - why does this not surprise me? :)
James Gannon
02:10:05
CSL would be in scope for this too likely
Pam Little
02:11:35
@Marika - Could you confirm whether the WHOIS Procedure is a “consensus policy”?
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
02:14:55
@Sebastien: Will you need more than 5 minutes in AOB during our upcoming meeting to give Council an update on Rec 7? Should it be a stand-alone discussion item?
Marika Konings
02:16:03
@Pam - My understanding is that the procedure is the implementation of PDP recommendations, but it is not listed here (https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/registrars/consensus-policies-en), possibly because it does not create any obligations for CPs (it is a procedure that they can decide to use)?
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
02:17:29
Thick whois after today’s CJEU decision might be impossible
Pam Little
02:17:29
Thanks, Marika. If it is a consensus policy, there should be records of meetings, and reports, etc.
Marika Konings
02:17:38
For completeness: “In November 2005, the Generic Names Supporting Organization (GNSO) concluded a policy development process (PDP) on Whois conflicts with privacy law”
Maxim Alzoba
02:18:25
As a US legal body - ICANN can not knowledgeably force parties to violate the local law
Maxim Alzoba
02:19:01
and real laws have priority
Marika Konings
02:20:36
@Pam - for some further background, see https://gnso.icann.org/en/issues/whois-privacy/whois_national_laws_procedure.htm
Berry Cobb
02:21:09
https://www.icann.org/news/blog/moving-toward-implementation-next-steps-for-work-stream-2
Tom Dale
02:21:22
I think ATRT3 recommendations impact on WS2 implementation.
Carlton Samuels
02:22:20
The essential recommendations seem to be "do the ones that are outstanding first".
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:22:26
correct re ATRT3
Greg DiBiase
02:32:01
agree with Michele
Pam Little
02:32:09
+1 Michele
Greg DiBiase
02:32:15
agree with michele
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:33:30
happy to assist that group if they have any questions Pam
Ariel Liang
02:33:35
This is the public comment for ATRT3, closing on 31 July: https://www.icann.org/public-comments/atrt3-final-report-2020-06-16-en
Tom Dale
02:33:55
There is also the ATRT3 proposal for a community-based priority setting mechanism.
Tom Dale
02:34:13
Happy to help
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:34:14
and in WS2
Philippe Fouquart
02:35:30
Keith+1 Thanks Berry and staff for this. Just a thought: re. the review of this Decision radar, it may not be relevant as a recurrent agenda item at every council call, but possibly every x meeting, or a quick review during the F2F/virtual meetings. Anyway thanks, really useful.
Berry Cobb
02:35:39
My pleasure.
Flip Petillion
02:35:52
Thanks Berry !
Tom Dale
02:36:07
Very helpful. Thanks to Berry and colleagues
Pam Little
02:36:08
Thank you, Berry.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:36:10
bye for now... very good meeting btw...
Marie Pattullo
02:36:16
Thanks so much Berry - definitely useful!
Tom Dale
02:36:23
Stay safe
Carlton Samuels
02:36:23
Thank you all. Bye all
Tatiana Tropina
02:36:25
Thank yo use much!
Maxim Alzoba
02:36:29
bye all
Philippe Fouquart
02:36:31
thanks. Bye all.