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Remediating Universal Acceptance Issues - Shared screen with speaker view
MAEMURA Akinori
59:24
good evening from Tokyo!
Yuri Kargapolov
01:00:06
good afternoon from Odessa!
Joshua J. Onuh
01:00:29
hello from Nigeria
Nitin Walia
01:00:50
Hello everyone
Maria Kolesnikova
01:01:04
Hi All
Bikram Shrestha
01:01:11
Nameste and hello from Nepal
Raitme Citterio
01:01:15
Hello All
Jaewon SON
01:01:15
Hello from Seoul :)
Mohamed Elbashir (ICANN Org)
01:07:20
Hello everyone, My name is Mohamed (ICANN Staff) and I will be monitoring the session chat room. 

In this role, I will be the voice for remote participants in the Q&A session.

If you have a Question, write <Question> before your question, the questions will be read in the Q&A at the end of the session. Questions and comments placed in chat will be considered as part of the “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.

Please note that chat sessions are being archived and follow the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior: http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/expected-standards
Mohamed Elbashir (ICANN Org)
01:10:13
UA Readiness Report (2020): https://uasg.tech/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/UASG-FY20-Readiness-Report-20200917.pdf
Miten
01:13:29
This we all heard yesterday , why its repeated
Miten
01:14:19
Topic is Remediating Universal Acceptance Issues , not introduction
Maria Kolesnikova (.ru, .рф)
01:21:06
<comment>There should be more regional software included into the testing of any categories of software, not only the global ones. For example, the most popular regional software used by majority of local users.</comment>
Roberto
01:21:42
@Maria - good point!
Achara Boonsri
01:23:49
<comment> Agreed with @Maria comment the testing of any categories of software is done on very limited applications global ones. Whereas UA agenda should be local. <comment>
Mark Švančárek
01:24:34
https://uasg.tech/wp-content/uploads/documents/UASG012-en-digital.pdf
Dennis Tan
01:25:25
Everyone: for the workshop part of this session we are proposing to talk about 1) Remediation Strategy and 2) Government Stakeholder approach ….. we may have time for another one or two additional topics. We are open to suggestions. Please post your topic in the chat box. Thanks
Ajay Data
01:25:33
Thank you @maria and @achara , we shall take this into consideration. our Local Initiatives Chair and Ambasaddors will be contacted to get the local info and we shall include that in our future work. Thank you.
Achara Boonsri
01:25:52
<comment> What the EAI Working Group does because UASG.tech itself is not ready for EAI so far <comment>
Maria Kolesnikova (.ru, .рф)
01:26:23
<Question>@Mark Have Microsoft Exchange Server started to support EAI already? It was announced some years ago that it is in process but not confirmed as finished one on the official Microsoft's resources yet? Outlook has supported EAI properly.</Questions>
Achara Boonsri
01:27:22
@Maria <comment> Outlook still dont supported EAI properly
Mark Švančárek
01:27:23
https://uasg.tech/wp-content/uploads/documents/UASG021B-en-digital.pdf
Miten
01:27:25
I will leave. There is no Remediating session here.
Maria Kolesnikova (.ru, .рф)
01:27:53
Thank you!
Maria Kolesnikova (.ru, .рф)
01:28:01
<Question> It looks like there is some lack of security documentation regarding EAI and IDN usage on the UASG's website and in scope of its current work. It could be useful to make a special section on the website designed for these security issues and documents. As we can see it on local level (CIS and EE region), the security topic is discussed in two directions: M3AAWG recommendations and Unicode Consortium tech standard 39. Maybe it's a right time to start to work on some security documentation which will be concentrated on Unicode usage but particularly for EAI and IDN? </Question>
Dennis Tan
01:30:25
Everyone: for the workshop part of this session we are proposing to talk about 1) Remediation Strategy and 2) Government Stakeholder approach ….. we may have time for another one or two additional topics. We are open to suggestions. Please post your topic in the chat box. Thanks
Ajay Data
01:30:34
@archara I think Microsoft Outlook is supporting EAI well now. Any issues.
Achara Boonsri
01:30:51
<Question> Mark is uasg.tech EAI ready? Mailing list of EAI also dont support EAI email address? How will we become universal acceptance ready and have vendors support universal acceptance when UASG itself is not ready with EAI <Question>
Ajay Data
01:32:11
https://news.microsoft.com/en-in/features/email-addresses-indian-language-support/
Achara Boonsri
01:32:34
<Question> Is there any EAI UA ready mailing list software available <Question>
Maria Kolesnikova (.ru, .рф)
01:33:37
The security issues connected with Unicode usage in EAI and IDN are important for further UA implementation. That should be included into the strategy.
Mark Elkins
01:34:41
<comment> would be nice to catagorise different MTA/UserAgents between Windows/Apple/Linux & BSD (etc)</comment>
Dennis Tan
01:35:16
@Maria: Unicode, M3AAWG have addressed those issues. Is there anything new that UASG should be working on?
Achara Boonsri
01:35:55
<Comment> If UASG and ICANN is facing challanges from past 6 years and still not EAI ready how can we have community ready<Comment>
Jiankang Yao
01:36:05
one version of sendmail has supported EAI, pls see https://github.com/arnt/sendmail-smtputf8
Maria Kolesnikova (.ru, .рф)
01:37:25
@Dennis, I mean that this information is not available easily and is not representing on the UASG website or most of UASG documents to be recognized by any stakeholders.
Mohamed Elbashir (ICANN Org)
01:37:25
For the workshop part of this session we are proposing to talk about 1) Remediation Strategy and 2) Government Stakeholder approach ….. we may have time for another one or two additional topics. We are open to suggestions. Please post your topic in the chat box. Thanks!
Dennis Tan
01:37:55
@Maria, noted
Achara Boonsri
01:39:32
<Comment> Sorry Satish totally disagree with your opening comment , this completely fail UA mission then, as every user will have this issue of applications and software, and thats UA mission is to make them ready ,so mission of UA is far to achieve with these thoughts <Comment>
Ritu Kumar
01:39:52
@satish, Only Chinese and Arabic as Examples , No Indian language.
Maria Kolesnikova (.ru, .рф)
01:40:38
and No Cyrillic script ;)
Maria Kolesnikova (.ru, .рф)
01:41:03
Great!
Dennis Tan
01:41:18
@Achara, we need more people like you to join our volunteer membership. We need passionate people like you.
Mohamed Elbashir (ICANN Org)
01:41:34
@Ritu Kumar, we are updating the testing options (e.g Domain names/EAI) by including new scripts, hopefully we will publish that updated testing case scenarios soon
Ritu Kumar
01:42:06
@mohamed , how do you select language, whats the process to pick top language
Nitin Walia
01:42:58
<Comment> Sorry Satish its six years now so please dont say overnight, UA has achieved a lot during this time , but what you metioned in your opening comment was not expected from technology <Comment>
Mohamed Elbashir (ICANN Org)
01:42:59
@Ritu The UA community/Technology working group was involved in this process
Dennis Tan
01:43:37
@Ritu… While language maybe important from a end user standpoint, is less so for technical testing. UA test for Unicode validation (it doesn’t care about a specific script). That said, we are expanding our test domain names and email addresses pool to help local software developers choose a test subject relevant to them
Ritu Kumar
01:45:25
@Dennis , you are diverting the issue and have bias about your decision.
Achara Boonsri
01:45:32
@mohamed , how do you select language, whats the process to pick top languagei would also like to know this
Marc Blanchet
01:46:14
To Satish, I disagree when you said that for languages and libraries, turning the red into green is good. Because, for many cases, over time, some librairies will just die and new ones will be used. Those librairies will « die » not necessarily because of UA non-conformance, but often because they were based on old technlogies/old versions of languages, and developers would not update them, but instead start a new lib.
Achara Boonsri
01:46:23
@mohamed do we have community involvement is this selection
Dennis Tan
01:46:27
@Ritu, how am I diverting the issue of testing?
Ritu Kumar
01:47:58
@dennis , being Vice Chair you should stick to agenda, I agree with Miten . You are not even listening.
Joshua J. Onuh
01:48:55
Talking about community involvement in the language selection process, I'm thinking, how would that play out in a multi lingual country like Nigeria?
Maria Kolesnikova (.ru, .рф)
01:50:01
<Comment>Developers have scattered knowledge sometimes (mostly about software which they use on daily basis), so there can be organized more centralized list of software with UA-readiness status on UASG website or somewhere else. That can show UA implementation progress for the technicians better.</comment>
Ajay Data
01:50:11
We are noting all comments and listening. I will ensure discussion on them and take appropriate actions / decisions with involvement of other community leaders.
Ajay Data
01:50:56
@mohamed , pl bring all issues to admin
Mark Švančárek
01:53:15
@Maria: we are now discussing something like a logo program for EAI. Rather than try to represent all the various components and tools and services related to EAI on the site, it would be better if each vendor offered that info on *their* site, in their marketing, and in their documents. In our next EAI WG call, we'll be discussing this topic, if you would like to join!
Yuri Kargapolov
01:53:18
+1 @Maria
Roberto
01:53:42
@Joshua - about the issue of multilingualism and how this is connected to UA, there will be a session at the Global IGF - will post the details in a moment
Nitin Walia
01:54:38
@Mark thats a great input
Roberto
01:55:50
Tuesday 17 November @ 12:50 UTC https://www.intgovforum.org/multilingual/content/igf-2020-ws-271-multilingualism-online-old-challenges-and-new-perspectives
Joshua J. Onuh
01:56:07
@Roberto, thank you
Achara Boonsri
01:56:27
@Roberto, thank you
Roberto
01:56:51
You are welcome
Achara Boonsri
01:58:05
@mark Thanks for sharing your valuable insights
Mark Elkins
01:59:56
People/Programmers are "lazy" so will usually do the least amount of work to achieve their goal. If they are required to add IDN/EAI/UTF8 into the mix, they will - or might even do so if they live in a non-ascii country.
Mark Elkins
02:00:41
Perhaps the people who pay them need to specify IDN/EAI ?
Mark Švančárek
02:00:58
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/201323/how-to-validate-an-email-address-using-a-regular-expression
Marc Blanchet
02:03:00
I agree with Mark. However, if we just say them: Don’t do that, it does not help. We also need to tell them: use ->that<- UA-conformant library. So both are needed.
Achara Boonsri
02:03:06
@mark developer half life spend on Google and other search to find easy solutions
Maria Kolesnikova (.ru, .рф)
02:03:14
Can we also look at some typical stack of technologies/software ( I can mistake in terminology, sorry)? I mean, for example, many hosting providers use the typical list of software to install their mail systems, and if one of these products is non UA-ready then the whole system will be non UA-ready as well.
Sávyo Vinícius
02:03:27
Under the Software umbrella it is also important to take into consideration the SysAdmins, who activelly manage the software during the usage and can activelly try to filter EAIs and IDNs "to avoid phishing and spam"
hadia Elminiawi
02:03:29
Could you please share the created document after the workshop
Roberto
02:04:38
The problem is looking for solutions to solve the problem at hand without “losing time” to look for a more general situation. Then the scenario changes and the SW fails.
Achara Boonsri
02:05:32
<Comment> Community Outreach will help in that, lot of people will be happy to help and volunteer<Comment>
Satish Babu
02:05:33
Sure @Hadia.
hadia Elminiawi
02:08:12
Thanks Satish
Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong
02:08:18
UA ambassadors is great idea and we need to create small program of community member fellowship to bring more UA community on the table . UA is so large
Raitme Citterio
02:08:50
@Dennis commentary "I believe that it is necessary to include the ISPs of our regions in the training issue, so that they can identify potential problems arising from their users that, without being completely clear about the AU issue, may present some type of problem that is not completely identified. "
Marc Blanchet
02:11:05
Agree with Edmon. But I’m just saying it does not create a lot of market influence.
Yao
02:11:10
agree with Marc”s idea
Achara Boonsri
02:11:12
<Comment> Government RFP are product or provider driven , if we have products and providers in market supporting and promoting UA requirements this will automatically become part of RFP <Comment>
Gary Petzer
02:11:22
The ICANN document is still available on the UASG site
Gary Petzer
02:12:07
https://uasg.tech/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/UASG_ICANN_Case_Study_UASG013C.2.pdf
Raitme Citterio
02:12:08
<Comment>I believe that it is necessary to include the ISPs of our regions in the training issue, so that they can identify potential problems arising from their users that, without being completely clear about the AU issue, may present some type of problem that is not completely identified. <Comment>
Mohamed Elbashir (ICANN Org)
02:12:58
ICANN Org UA Case study could be found here: https://uasg.tech/2020/04/icann-ua-case-study-published/
Maria Kolesnikova (.ru, .рф)
02:14:29
<Question> ICANN's website and systems are more or less UA ready. The next level is registries and registrars. Do we need to look more closely at UA-Readiness of registry software now?On local level we (as members of UA local initiative) often hear that If we are trying to make all other software UA-Ready, most likely we should start from ourselves. And IDN TLD registries and registrars are one the main UA influencers. Does UASG have plans to evaluate what common trends and problems regarding UA-readiness do have the most popular registry software? What can be done in this field? </Question>
Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong
02:14:56
Gov can create a national WG on UA readiness more on area of universal Acceptance
Maria Kolesnikova (.ru, .рф)
02:16:31
GAC IDN/UA Working Group is working already.
Yuri Kargapolov
02:21:08
<Comment> Colleagues, sorry, but we are now discussing what was clear a year ago. We got together with the technical community and can still decide on a procedure for how to set a FRAMEWORK for software that already meets the conditions of READYNESS, to what degree of readiness and collect this very important information in a single place on the UA website, and not rely on vendors. Can we move on successfully without a framework? You cannot start a conversation with any gov stakeholder if you cannot show him something real. And they already know the IDN problem. </comment>
Achara Boonsri
02:21:23
<comment> Local initiatives and UA ambassadors must have dedicated focus
Achara Boonsri
02:21:38
<comment> Local initiatives and UA ambassadors must have dedicated focus on Government making aware of UA issues and make UA reediness be part of their RFP <comment>
Achara Boonsri
02:23:40
<Question> Cant GAG be involved for taking US requirements in government RFP’s <comment>
Mohamed Elbashir (ICANN Org)
02:23:51
Please join the different UA working groups and participate in the work: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScRg7caDnbgEo_r6UnP3s5OvtIMlE9btaM--sIWXukWbA52oQ/viewform
Achara Boonsri
02:24:06
<Question> Cant GAG be involved for taking US requirements in government RFP’s <Question>
Achara Boonsri
02:24:19
UA
Achara Boonsri
02:26:40
<Question> Do we have any RFP to share with our government where UA is been advocated in a RFP <Question>
Achara Boonsri
02:28:51
<Question> Why UASG has so much vendor dependency , why not every work is first shared with community if anyone or any group wish to volunteer and commit time and resources? <Question>
MAEMURA Akinori
02:29:10
Need to move. Thank you for really a fruitful session!!
Satish Babu
02:29:37
Thanks Maemura-san!
Mohamed Elbashir (ICANN Org)
02:29:43
Quick Guide to Tender and Contractual Documents can be found in this link: https://uasg.tech/wp-content/uploads/documents/UASG009-en-digital.pdf
Edmon Chung mail@edmon.asia
02:30:43
sorry need to drop too. bye. connect again at the UA session tomorrow
Mohamed Elbashir (ICANN Org)
02:30:51
The above link provide guidance for the Government procurement officials with a draft UA compliance requirement that can be added to the government systems requirements
Maria Kolesnikova (.ru, .рф)
02:31:33
<Comment>Speak more with UA Ambassadors and LIs, they work with all these issues daily.</comment>
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:31:34
Bye for now
Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong
02:31:54
thanks for that great session
Roberto
02:31:55
Bye!
Mohamed Elbashir (ICANN Org)
02:31:57
Thank you everyone
Yuri Kargapolov
02:31:57
thanks!
Joan Katambi
02:31:59
bye