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Action Items for At-Large Sessions at ICANN68 will be taken at: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/ALAC+and+At-Large+Action+Items+from+ICANN68

Thanks Heidi!!

hi again friends.

Please note, if you have a question, you will not have the ability to unmute yourself during this meeting, staff will be have to unmute your line. If you have a question please raise your hand and staff will unmute you, thank you so much.

In response to Zoom bombers we have, effective immediately, disabled attendee rights to unmute and to rename themselves in all Zoom sessions. Any participant violating the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior will be removed. We will continue to assess our options to avoid these disruptions and provide updates for any further changes.

Please post the link to the agenda in the chat so people can view the slides or people who are turning in who are unable to see the screen as shown

@Claudia Ruiz: thank you for your speedy response to that!

fyi here is our resource on Covid 19

https://padlet.com/acalderon/COVID19

Where is today's slide ?

websites need IP addresses, not necessary dns names

there are so many “might”s in that “provocative” statement, which I think answers the question: this is not DNS abuse.

So while this presentation is nice, is it based in reality or data about levels of abuse in the DNS?

What is Yros's twitter handle?

Thank Joanna

Sun is always up in Finland this time of the year Ergo!

yep

*Yrjo

@Owen We willbe discussing "acceptable levels" of DNS abuse in one of the following sessions, please consider this an introduction to that discussion.

When submitting a question or comment that you want me to read out loud on the mic, please type your question or comment in English and start with a <QUESTION> and end with a “</QUESTION>” or <COMMENT> </COMMENT>. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.

Finland. yes I had the opportunity to well north, the night never comes

I work for a registrar, and the levels of “abuse” have been the same. Similar levels of abuse. Just a bit more towards corona in March and April, and registrars did amazing efforts to combat. But where are there facts about COVID abuse otherwise?

@Owen, thank you for all of these, do feel free to share your thoughts in the Q&A round, would that work?

OWEn.. good to know. I have not experience any abuse in my work all this time of quarantine

Of course, I would love to share how the 3rd largest registrar dealt with this abuse. And it’s similar to what other registrars did

And it is nowhere near as bad as what is being said.

Great to have you here @Owen!:) good to know - consoling news.

@Vanda, that’s excellent to hear!

yes guess brasil is not relevant for abuse….

When submitting a question or comment that you want me to read out loud on the mic, please type your question or comment in English and start with a <QUESTION> and end with a “</QUESTION>” or <COMMENT> </COMMENT>. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.

No, I think your experience is representative of what the data shows.

I’m sorry, but does Yrjo have cites or links to support his statements? Because he’s making a lot of really inflammatory statements and… it’s not what I’ve seen.

Reg, my be.. kisses

If you have a question, you will not have the ability to unmute yourself during this meeting, staff will have to unmute your line. If you have a question please raise your hand and staff will unmute you, thank you so much.

@Owen, we'll take that Q in the Q&A. Thank you.

OK, sure, but I just need to chime in that what he’s saying is not reflective of reality.

According the webinar done by CPH on 11 June — found here: <https://www.rysg.info/webinars-and-presentations> — that among 10s of thousands of COVID related domain name registrations, there have only been hundreds of DNS abuse related actions taken. in other words, this fear of DNS abuse related to COVID simply does not exist. on the other hand, website content abuse related to COVID is quite real, just as website content abuse related to all kinds of health and crisis issues is quite real.

+1 James

policymaking needs to be factually based, not emotions based

The Framework would absolutely consider Covid/cure related sites on domain names as Website Content Abuse questions, not DNS Abuse - that’s a bright line definition. That’s not to say a Registry or Registrar should not action them but it would not be acting on DNS Abuse.

+1 James, we have seen the same.

Is there actually any data to back up these statements? I somehow only saw one slide?

factual numbers are fixed (it there is a period in the past to look at)

For .ORG, the data was there were 14,700 domain name registrations related to Corona/Covid through May, with a total of 13 as actionable for DNS Abuse after put through multiple feeds and manual investigation

@Brian there’s actually a huge difference - the latter implies action on contents, while DNS abuse does not

<COMMENT> In Argentina, the government is making some efforts.It has frozen rates until the end of the year for Internet, Cellular Telephony and digital TV.The delivery of the first 400,000 netbooks to young public school students is also planned.Students will be able to access university portals with their phones without consuming data.The organization that I represent (Internauta Argentina, Argentine Association of Internet Users) has promoted a national campaign so that the Internet, Cellular Telephony and subscription TV are declared Essential Public Services.If this is declared so, the State will be able to better coordinate the development of private sector infrastructure and also regulate rates.Up to now 60 other social, political and union organizations have been added, which make up the promotion committee.In a few days we will be presenting the bill in the national congress, one of our foundations is based on an internet declaration as Human Right by the United Nations Human Rights Council in

True, but that 13 actually includes searching for Website Content Abuse questions such as selling false cures

@Brian understood, thx

<COMMENT>You can see our campaign at: https://www.internetesencial.org</COMMENT>

Alex Ioannis Kargopoulos, EUFRA https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/agencies/fra_en

for Afilias TLDs - 25 TLDs for which we are the registry operator - after reviewing almost 5,000 registrations that were found to be COVID related, only 78 turned out to be actionable, and all actions were website content based, not DNS abuse based.

FRA COVID bulletins: https://fra.europa.eu/en/publication/2020/covid19-rights-impact-april-1

Thanks Glenn!!

Good morning everyone

my name is Ham

here telecom is not cut for non payment problem.

from Uganda

hi Ham

@vanda It is very good news, the same in Argentina

Telco issues are tracked in the US by NDIA who host a Net Inclusion conference.

Is the slide deck not advancing for me or is this session just a single slide?

I think there is a definitional issue around the term "DNS Abuse." The "Framework" proposes a narrow definition for the term.

I see no slide deck

Just a single slide I think James.

government is not controlling people here - the quarantine is mandatory and people are following the protocols but no surveillance on the people.

it seems to be a legal update on EU

Thank you for confirming Bruce & Mark SV

@staff so we have any slides?

@James Alex does not have slidesJust the intro

DNS Abuse Framework - http://dnsabuseframework.org

I recommend seeing the slides James Galvin menitioned earlier

thanks Glenn

what we have here is University of SP asking for feeling from be in quarantine - for statistics and study proposals.

In Argentina, citizens remain in quarantine for more than 95 days, the State has not monitored citizens' data

apps not necessary use DNS, might work just over IP

Reminder: When submitting a question or comment that you want me to read out loud on the mic, please type your question or comment in English and start with a <QUESTION> and end with a “</QUESTION>” or <COMMENT> </COMMENT>. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.

Thanks @James, please note the framework is consensual and non binding. I believe we're still discussing the scope of DNSAbuse - this is a contribution to that debate.

yes if they have legal access to such data.

Re: covid-19 related phishing/malware distribution, in ICANN OCTO we looked at over 600,000 covid-related (and variants, including medications and homoglyphs, in 10 languages) domains, of which we filed reports to registrars on a couple of dozen.

Any further data on that, @David Conrad?

wall might prevent bluetooth from connecting (glass might be a better example)

Session DetailsThis session seeks to address concerns of individual users worldwide during the COVID-19 pandemic, disinformation, public health and surveillance. It aims to answer questions on how to best protect end user interest in time of the pandemic, with due regard to cases of advanced data collection, including through online and mobile service providers as well as protect end users from online disinformation, prying on increased health concerns around the globe. Whether unique offers of COVID-19 vaccines available online or custom designed apps used for tracing those who have been exposed to the virus, the pandemic has shed a new light on the challenges online communications bring to protecting end user interests online. We would like to use this opportunity to welcome opinions from among the ICANN community on whether we’re facing a changed paradigm on effective end user protection online. What are the limits of online service providers rights and obligations when it comes to sharing end user infor

More importantly, the Framework is "consensual" only among registries and registrars, some of whom are advancing that particular definitional framework.

@Greg, it is always case by case, there are rights of the Registrants on the other end of the contractual chain

<question> how is this (covid apps) relevant to icanns mission?

Comment - we are way off track with this

@mark have a bit of data — we intentionally set a high bar for what we would forward to the registrars as we wanted to avoid adding noise to their abuse handling processes. And we were focused exclusively on phishing and malware distribution.

@Volker this is what we're exploring. If they infringe upon significant end user interest they might be considered abuseive

*abusive

The point is that the Framework is a registry/registrar document.

I think the questions, is why this is a discussion at ICANN as opposed to IGF meetings?

@Greg, Registrants also have policies to follow

Why not both @Jeff?

@Jeff, indeed it will most definitely be discussed at IGF.

it is not relevant to the topic of DNS Abuse

@Greg, because this what is being discussed now is not an issues that involves ICANN's narrow mission

@David Conrad, thank you. If any non-private raw data can be shared, that would be rather valuable.

The victims of Abuse are not registrants -- the concern is the individual internet user -- the "end user."

We're trying to explore whether end user protection goes beyond consumer fraud as we've seen it thus far

@Jeff, I think you've defined a critical question, but you have put it In the form of a statement .

If they are abuse, enabling them should be considered infringing as per the framework.

yes Joanna, quite interesting session. congrats

We should have this discussion, but this is probably not the time, while a presentation is going on.

@Greg, then I can rephrase. How is contact tracing for COVID related to ICANN's mission of the coordination of Names and Numbers?

@Jeffrey because if they are abuse provides should disable sites that host them, just as with COVID cures.

@Greg, DNS Abuse might be targeting the Registrants (hacked accounts), and also - neglecting obligations before Registrants is a violation of a contract

@Jeff, not my presentation. I'm here to learn.

@Maxim, I agree that registrants can also be victims. Here we are focus on the end user issues.

<QUESTION> ALAC members have spent a lot of time and effort putting together a wonderful presentation on the consumer protection and privacy concerns represented by COVID-19, including actions by governments and corporate persons, but has failed to draw any relationship to the DNS, even in light of evidence presented to the contrary: what does ALAC believe participants should take away from this session, from an ICANN perspective?

In response to Zoom bombers we have, effective immediately, disabled attendee rights to unmute and to rename themselves in all Zoom sessions. Any participant violating the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior will be removed. We will continue to assess our options to avoid these disruptions and provide updates for any further changes.

@mark The data we used is publicly available (CZDS and DNS reputation feeds, e.g., virustotal, phishtank, etc).

Will check Virustotal, thanks @David Conrad.

@Greg, not taking into account Registrants rights while ‘fighting the abuse’ is an abuse of other Internet users

@Maxim, I did not say anytihng about "not taking into account Registrant's rights."

It would be nice if we had someone from the APAC region sharing since ICANN68 was supposed to be held in APAC

<QUESTION> ALAC has expressed concerns about data tracking and personal rights, especially with regard to COVID-19 status and contact-tracing. How does this jibe with ALAC’s position that whois data should be fully public? Are end-users who own domain names not entitled to privacy rights? If not, why not?

@Manju - I think you would find that there are a lot of Participants in this meeting from this region - starting with the ALAC Chair, from the Cook Islands

Thank you @Reg, we're taking Qs down and will try to address them in the Q&A section

@Reg, where do you see that ALAC's position is that WHOIS data should be "fully public"? I don't believe that's accurate.

More than 200 participants if dial outs included

the presentation might be presented on some developers conference to ensure they do the right thing

@Holly thanks for reply! what I was trying to say is that it’d be nice to have some speakers from APAC for this session :) What Alex was sharing about contact-tracing apps in Europe is interesting, and it’d be nice if we hear the same regarding APAC.

@Reg, The ALAC supports the rights or registrants, but at times there is a balancing required between the rights of registrants, and the rights of the FAR GREATER number (approaching 5 billion) non-registrant users.

@Greg: ALAC has been supporting positions that encourage unfettered access to whois data. If this is not ALAC’s position, that would be wonderful to hear them say publicly.

Reminder: When submitting a question or comment that you want me to read out loud on the mic, please type your question or comment in English and start with a <QUESTION> and end with a “</QUESTION>” or <COMMENT> </COMMENT>. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.

ALAC should promote RDAP more, WHOIS is to be replaced

@Reg, I don't believe that's an accurate statement. You can take a look at the EPDP, or at any ALAC comment regarding the EPDP.

Yes, Greg. That is what I am looking at. But I look forward to being proven incorrect, especially given Alan’s confirmation of that position.

<comment> this is mainly content abuse though? how is that a role for ICANN?

@Maxim, I think we are using "WHOIS data" to refer to the data itself and not the specific database.

@Reg, pretty sure that the ALAC have never advocated for “unfettered” access to registrant data but we DO want to make sure there’s efficient access to it for the folks who need it to protect consumers. Not sure the hyperbole is helpful.

@Reg, within EPDP ALAC does not promote unfettered access to contact data. They support SSAD, a system for accredited users to request data to be lawfully disclosed undr a system of safeguards

Thank you Alan - I was about to say much the same thing.

@Reg, can you be more specific. I have not heard Alan Greenberg adopt that position, much less "confirm it."

@Reg, unfettered access to WHOIS might or might not be a good things, but under GPDR and comparable legislation, it is not a reality and the ALAC well understands that. What we do support is reasonable access for those who have legitimate and legal need. We have said that VERY clearly.

@Greg, adding ‘or RDAP’ will help end users to get used to the new thing

+1 Maxim

Thank you, Alan, for setting the record straight.

@Maxim, that may be true and nice to have, but let's not let semantics take us away from substance.

I’m pleased to hear that ALAC supports reasonable access, as defined under the GDPR. Thank you, Greg and Alan, for clarifying that. Most of what I had seen did not take into account the necessary balancing of rights that must occur with each request for release of personal data but I sit corrected.

@ Mangu - I think the various positions in APAC vary. In Australia, we are having a debate on the use of an app for contact tracing - whether it works/violates privacy, It is based on the Singapore App - but then each country is responding to the issues in its own way.

@Greg, are you aware that WHOIS is going down soon? Are End users aware?

@Reg, I would really like to know what you are looking.Some in At-Large (and elsewhere) might like or want "unfettered access" and a return to fully open WHOIS/RDS. But there are a lot of things that I and others might want that are purely dreams and fantasies. And sadly I am old enough to know the difference.

@Holly that's why we've gone with Eu as it seems a bit easier to tackle in terms of legislation and still: no uniform approach to this specific issue - most of the apps are bluntly illegal.

@Reg, the GDPR applies only to EU Data Subjects, who are natural persons. As for the "necessary balancing of rights" discussion -- I'll let Alan, Mark Sv and other EPDP participants hash that out -- there seem to be some unsettled issues in that discussion (to say the least).

+1 Joanna

@Alan, there are also those with fantasies of global GDPR for all persons, legal and natural....

+ the in/famous GDPR transboundary effect.

Precisely as Joanna says

does anyone have the link to the CircleID article that Marita mentioned when she started?

http://www.circleid.com/posts/20200613-un-secretary-generals-roadmap-on-digital-cooperation/

Thank you, @Manju Chen

my pleasure!

@manju thanks!

CO2 emissions of international conferences

<Question> What is the definition of a "Volunteer Constituency?" Isnt that every constituency?

The environmental topic is included in this year IGF thematic track.

Aviation contributes about 2% of the world's global carbon emissions, according to the International Air Transport Association (IATA). It predicts passenger numbers will double to 8.2 billion in 2037..

i thought ALAC is made up by local entities? surely there should be thousands of members of those entities willing to step up?

@Jeff True, but there are people who attend ICANN stuff as part of their day job, others do not. I guess this is the difference

local meetings? isn‘t the

that the reason for our usual travels?

These topics re: meetings are actually very good points and I think it will be interesting to see what ICANN Org’s view is moving forward after we get out of this current situation

thank you, Marita, that was insightful

Thank you, Marita!

I agree that COVID 19 exacerbates some of the Multi-stakeholder Model issues, but at the end of the day, there are number of issues that we have that are around with or without the pandemic.

thank you Marita

Let's not forget about the ICANN MSM Reform process when we consider these matters. It is still a valuable document.

Please see a report of interest: https://g8fip1kplyr33r3krz5b97d1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Report-Covid-final-002.pdf

Of course @Jeff, but the current 'situation' allows us a particular opportunity for focus...

Not true. Just say you’re going to speak French

@Mark Yes indeed, and I for one hope this interaction might also encourage input into that as well...

@Seb, jUST SPEAK IN French AND IT IS SUPPOSED TO WORK, JUST LIKE IN A REAL F2F MEETING.

Heidi, thank you for this link

oops Sorry for Caps.

@sebastien. you can speak in French over zoom. you just cannot speak thru the interpretation site that is only for listening

Open Public Comment on Enhancing ICANN MSM: https://www.icann.org/public-comments/multistakeholder-model-next-steps-2020-06-04-en Please contribute with that arise from these considerations.

*with thoughts that arise

all speaking and microphones are through the zoom interface and all listening is in the interpretation platform

Completely agree with you Sébastien

<COMMENT>

thanks Marita , liked your presentation.

It is wonderful that we have found ourselves able to work remotely. But that dones't mean we can do EVERYTHING well remotely. </COMMENT>

@Bill - agree

Thank you @Marita and Sabastien

Well said Owen

@Owen. Why can’t a similar partnership be done with ALAC and BC towards solving other types of abuses?

we do not know the future

I agree with @Owen. We worked with Namecheap and other registries very closely and took action quickly.

We handle abuse on a daily basis

so it is hard to predict what to prevent

but we know bad actors are opportunists.

being proactive is about punishment before the crime

I completely agree that we will need to continue to meet in person. As I said, meetings grease the social wheels and it is essential. But some reconfiguration might work for us. We should not be completely opposed to adjustments

And there’s a LOT less trolling in person. People are more inclined to work towards consensus in person.

The interpretation is working Sebastien

How do we listen to the English translation?

Marita, agree, mix for instance, the policy meeting like this one is easier to be online. thanks

Fraud is fraud. The key takeaway is that criminals will always try to attach their scams to the latest headlines (pandemic, earthquake, whatever) to break thru to a larger audience. But under the wrapper, the scam doesn’t change.

Good

good

+1

The congress app for your mobile phone

I recommend that folks watch the DNS abuse webinar session. We (CPH) talked about this and how we learned a lot form this experience, some of which can be built off of and other experiences that confirmed the difficulty of dealing with areas such as content.... which will continue to be a problem.

I just heard French - no interpretation to English

how to turn on interpreters?

How do I use the translation tool?

@jeffrey you need to listen in to the interpretation platform

Yes, you to EN on the interpretation app

I only heard French

I didn’t get the translation either

thanks all great chat as I put in the survey.

Merci Gracias Thanks

thanks all

translation not working for me. I have not been able to get the tool to work.

Good bye all

I only heard French

Thank Joanna, staff and all bye

yes, you need to download the translation app (Congress) and listen via the phone

https://urlgeni.us/ICANN68-GET-APP

In person it's more civil. Social barriers.

see you in another live

Thanks everyone -Gracias a todos

The audio in zoom is original audio the interpretation platform is where you select your language and so you want to select english

Thank Joanna, staff and all.

Session Token for audio in French & Spanish : ICANN68-ALAC

For all At-Large Sessions, thank you

thanks Claudia

Thanks all and catch you in the following session

Thanks....

thanks Claudia

@Claudia it is also for English

thank you Claudia

Thank you all

goodnight

@Cladia don’t mislead the people. All the participants need to have the tool

Very broad theme, especially when trying to illustrate "Abuse" for whom or who is the abuser?

thanks Joanna, ALEX and marita and all in the chat!

Thanks and bye!

Thanks a lot for this.. very informative!

Thanks a lor

Thanks, all!

Thank you Speakers, and everyone for joining and discussing this topic today, let's keep the discourse going :-) Thank YOU Joanna ... Bye for now...

+1 Harold

midnigth

bye

i need to go to the next session. thank you!

thanks to everyone for the participation and thanks to the presenters

Thanks and bye to all

Thanks all, much food for thought.

Thanks, All,

Thank you all

yeah! audio through Congress app works fine,,,

Thank you!

thanks to all

Thank you!