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051040011 GNSO Council - Shared screen with speaker view
Julie Hedlund - ICANN Org
41:56
I also get “not found” for that link @Manju
Steve Chan - ICANN Org
42:02
@Manju, the link takes you to the email that contains the document. Here is the link for the attachment: https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/council/attachments/20211025/d6317a45/DiscussionDraft-ModifyingConsensusPolicies-22oct21-0001.pdf
Steve Chan - ICANN Org
42:15
Oh, it at least works for me. Strange.
Manju Chen
43:32
yeah last time when a link didn’t work for me it worked for others too so i feel like it’s always mostly me…. 😅
Antonia Chu
44:02
@Nathalie Let me login with my laptop. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Steve Chan - ICANN Org
44:38
At least you have company this time, with Julie Hedlund 🙂
Mark Datysgeld
45:17
Looking forward to a thrilling read.
Marika Konings
45:33
@Manju - not sure if this helps, but we’ve also posted the paper as a google doc to facilitate the work of the small team: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WcVgATTaBZPZISmnHvqobHxBX8Q67TI2/edit
Manju Chen
45:34
@Steve thank you for the link! but it still doesn’t work, but again, maybe it’s me… hopefully also Julie!
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
45:50
GNSO archives seems to be moved somewhere else
John McElwaine
45:55
@Manju I could not get it to work either
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
46:08
even https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/council
Julie Hedlund - ICANN Org
46:13
The link Steve sent works for me.
Owen Smigelski
46:46
@Maxim- I too cannot see the council email archives
Marika Konings
46:46
We’ll look into the link issue - I think there are two different ones. One that goes to the email, which should work, and one that goes directly to the document, where there seems to be an issue.
Manju Chen
47:03
at least the google link works! thanks @Marika
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
47:05
browsers have cache of visited pages
John McElwaine
47:16
@Marika, I get the opposite. Email link does not work. Link to slides works
Stephanie Perrin
47:32
Apologies for arriving late, Zoom passcode was not working for me
Steve Chan - ICANN Org
47:33
I tried to get to current archive and that looks down
Steve Chan - ICANN Org
47:37
Which might explain things
Nathalie Peregrine - ICANN Org
50:02
We are raising the email archive issue to our tech team, and will keep you all updated as to when it is back up
Marika Konings
50:17
Here is a direct link that hopefully works: https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/file/field-file-attach/modifying-gtld-consensus-policies-executive-summary-22oct21-en.pdf
Marika Konings
50:32
If not, as Steve noted, it may be linked to the issue with the email archives.
Nathalie Peregrine - ICANN Org
51:07
ALL: Item 7 link has been updated in the agenda, I hope this helps
Flip Petillion
58:39
Slides : only one page: cover page
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
01:02:57
in addition to non visible archives , sometimes I do not receive e-mails sent to the Council@ which is upsetting
Stephanie Perrin
01:06:01
Or in the broader ICANN MS community (eg the Acs)
Mark Datysgeld
01:06:09
The GNSO Council should probably be composed of people who understand the GNSO's working.
Stephanie Perrin
01:06:58
Understanding is different from “experience”. One could follow or study for years and finally decide to join….but that person would have no experience, just knowledge
Farell Folly
01:07:44
And also no need to have been on the Council before to come back as a Nomcom Appointee.
Mark Datysgeld
01:07:45
As somebody who did that, starting first as an external party during my master's, I can say that it was not incredibly useful.
Mark Datysgeld
01:08:32
ICANN PDP workings are meandering and very specific.
Stephanie Perrin
01:08:45
Fair enough, I would agree that it is still a steep climb, joining Council. However, we are trying to avoid a revolving door that impacts the voting.
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:10:30
Why was "experience" replaced by "interest" in the multistakeholder model?
desiree_miloshevic
01:10:58
I would like to thank Steve for clarifying the changes
Marie Pattullo
01:11:08
I agree with Flip & Mark - we need people who know how the MSM works from the inside. And when have we had a revolving door of NCAs? Did any just-left councillors come back as NCAs?
John McElwaine
01:14:41
May be I am too tired but I am not following what the final text is
Paul McGrady
01:14:53
Can we see what we are voting on? Really hard to follow what is in and what is out based on Stephanie's comments.
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:15:59
I know I am just a liaison but if the text in the first sentence is changed to multistakeholder community, then it should be experience, not "interest" as the council should be "leaders" in the community.....but feel free to ignore my comment :)
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:16:52
People who have an "interest" should be in the Cs or SGs. Leaders on the Council should have experience in a multistakeholder environment.
Flip Petillion
01:16:57
+ Jeff
Stephanie Perrin
01:17:05
The three noncom appointees are meant to be fresh blood. The rest of us are supposed to provide the experience
Flip Petillion
01:17:40
Same for us Marie
John McElwaine
01:17:51
I'm in the same boat
Stephanie Perrin
01:18:08
We circulated and reached a different conclusion
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:18:08
Fresh blood to the GNSO is ok....but experience in a multistakeholder environment should be an essential
Mark Datysgeld
01:18:09
What can someone who is not deeply involved in the GNSO contribute in a discussion about the procedures of RDAP, RPMs, IGO curative rights as they relate to domain names?
Paul McGrady
01:18:33
@Stephanie - I couldn't find your fresh blood idea in the NomCom documents. Can you point me to it? Lots of talk about "key" but I couldn't find anything indicating the NomCom was supposed to find inexperienced candidates. Please help me find it. Thanks!
Stephanie Perrin
01:18:35
There are many MS environments
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:19:18
@SP - correct. which is why you can keep "experience", but replace within the GNSO community with "MSM"
Stephanie Perrin
01:19:28
I am not going to find it on the fly Paul, I am relying on umpteen briefings by the Nomcom over the years
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
01:20:17
what is the date of the latest change to this document?
Flip Petillion
01:20:30
16 Nov
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
01:20:36
thanks, Flip
Paul McGrady
01:21:10
Thanks Stephanie. Hopefully, you can find it and post it on the list after the call. I've also had upteen briefings and don't have the same recollection that you do.
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:21:19
FYI - I remember Avri was one of the first Nominating Committee appointees. She did not have experience directly in the GNSO, but did have experience with IETF and other MSMs. She made an effective Nom Com appointee
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:21:29
And become the chair of the GNSO as a nom com appointee
Stephanie Perrin
01:21:31
I think Jeff’s predecessor was a great example of a Nomcom appointee who was well capable of being useful (Julf Helsingius). NO prior ICANN experience.
Stephanie Perrin
01:25:02
The existing language does not prevent experienced ICANN insiders from applying,, but the new language almost prevents new blood from being selected. I would remind folks that these positions are voting in two cases.
Stephanie Perrin
01:25:17
How exactly do we prevent bias?
Marie Pattullo
01:26:54
I really don't think a councillor should be a "learning" role - especially a voting one.
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:27:09
A person with an "interest" is great for Cs and SGs. But experience in at least a mulstistakeholder organization should be a must.
Thomas Rickert (ISPCP)
01:27:55
If we want more diversity, we need to have as few limiting factors as possible. GNSO is not rocket science and senior independent people can be very helpful.
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
01:28:27
people not aware of ICANN do exist, but they most probably will not apply due to the first part of the sentence
Marie Pattullo
01:29:10
Procedure: if we ae changing this (less than 12 hours before the vote and overnight for some of us) I'm in a bind as I can only abstain. I'll need to put that one record as to why.
Manju Chen
01:29:12
+1 interest replacing experience doesn’t exclude the latter
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
01:29:21
We might need to return to this item when things go well with the meetings
Marika Konings
01:29:26
Please remember to send your chats to “everyone” so that all attendees can see your messages as well.
Stephanie Perrin
01:29:38
I would remind folks that we did not see this text until Steve circulated it two days ago. Our comments followed a day later
Thomas Rickert (ISPCP)
01:29:52
If we want more diversity, we need to have as few limiting factors as possible. GNSO is not rocket science and senior independent people can be very helpful.
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
01:30:37
We might need to return to this item when things go well with the F2F meetings
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:31:19
E-mail vote?
Stephanie Perrin
01:31:38
Thanks Flip, you are correct that the word “interest” is carrying way too much freight these days….I will try to find a substitute. Curiosity is not it…..
Stephanie Perrin
01:32:08
I would support an email vote once we can agree on the principles we are driving towards.
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
01:32:25
a formal e-mail vote would be Ok, I think
Marie Pattullo
01:32:28
Yes Steph but that day made a difference - we got your mail 12 hours before this meeting opened. I'm not being obstructive, I'm explaining that we didn't have time to go back to our constituency.
Manju Chen
01:32:37
+1 to email vote
Stephanie Perrin
01:33:10
Sounds like a later email vote would be the solution then Marie
desiree_miloshevic
01:33:19
An email vote would indeed work.
John McElwaine
01:33:21
I don't think NomCom really needs guidance such as this until the February time-frame
Marie Pattullo
01:33:32
Quick suggestion: would it help to get someone from NomCom leadership to talk to us about what they want/need?
Steve Chan - ICANN Org
01:34:07
@John, this guidance will also be used in seeking candidates, which as Philippe noted, is expected to begin in mid-December.
Stephanie Perrin
01:34:08
These are our seats, we are telling them what WE need
Thomas Rickert (ISPCP)
01:34:29
E-mail vote makes sense.
Antonia Chu
01:34:39
+1 email vote
John McElwaine
01:34:40
Having been on NomCom this guidance is applied at the selection time primarily
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
01:34:46
also we need to take into account that NomCom will have own reading of the text (and we can not predict which)
Paul McGrady
01:35:36
Are we deferring, withdrawing, or something else?
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:36:05
@Paul - the answer to your question is "Yes"
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:36:11
:)
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
01:36:12
it seems to be a deferral
Paul McGrady
01:36:14
@Jeff - ha!
Paul McGrady
01:36:45
A deferral will require a formal vote, though.
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:36:45
Sorry - I am getting loopy tired....
Justine Chew (ALAC/GNSO)
01:36:57
I will leave my comment on this issue of this Job Description which I made to the list, for Council's onward consideration.
Paul McGrady
01:37:09
A withdrawal will not trigger a vote later,
Paul McGrady
01:37:14
A deferral would
Paul McGrady
01:38:14
I like the idea of a withdrawal and just trying to get this out the door via acclimation.
Steve Chan - ICANN Org
01:38:17
Sorry, let me switch
Steve Chan - ICANN Org
01:38:41
Sorry, not working I guess
Flip Petillion
01:40:09
Sounds complex and unnecessary - I’d withdraw
Paul McGrady
01:40:23
A good point Marika. The proposers could defer now and withdraw later if we can get to consensus on the list.
Marika Konings
01:40:56
Exactly, Paul
Paul McGrady
01:41:33
It actually sounds like we are very close. Looking around for a good synonym for "interest" that doesn't imply anything financial.
Paul McGrady
01:42:15
"working understanding"?
Manju Chen
01:42:44
passion? maybe too strong
Stephanie Perrin
01:42:50
Fascination doesn’t quite cut it, nor enthusiasm.
Flip Petillion
01:43:09
Love?
Flip Petillion
01:43:38
Probably too strong :-)
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
01:43:48
wish
John McElwaine
01:43:50
A "passion"
Kurt Pritz
01:43:55
Well, in a familial way
Manju Chen
01:43:57
knowledge and passion?
Paul McGrady
01:44:01
@Flip - way too strong. :-)
Stephanie Perrin
01:44:18
Demonstrates that perennial difference between the Brits and the French…..interest vs love.....
Stephanie Perrin
01:44:25
(Joke)
Steve Chan - ICANN Org
01:44:29
Times like this, with broken audio, I wish I wasn’t screen-sharing. I can’t restart Zoom 🙁
Mark Datysgeld
01:51:14
The UASG very recently got a new and improved documents database, much easier to find any information you might need: https://uasg.tech/document-hub/
Seda Akbulut
01:51:19
For more information on FY21 UA Readiness Report, go to: https://uasg.tech/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/UA-Readiness-Report-FY21.pdf
desiree_miloshevic
01:53:26
How about …posses adequate knowledge and a keen interest to contribute to the GNSO MSM process
Seda Akbulut
01:53:50
For more information on FY22 Action Plan: https://uasg.tech/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/UASG-FY22-Action-Plan-20210727.pdf
Steve Chan - ICANN Org
01:57:39
Apologies…
Seda Akbulut
01:59:46
To join a UASG working group: https://uasg.tech/join/
Seda Akbulut
01:59:54
Please email your interest to info@uasg.tech
Seda Akbulut
02:00:03
• Join the UASG community email list: https://uasg.tech/subscribe• Join a UASG working group: https://uasg.tech/join/• Follow @UASGTech on social mediahttps://twitter.com/UASGTechhttps://www.facebook.com/uasgtech/https://www.linkedin.com/company/uasgtech/
Sarmad Hussain - ICANN Org
02:02:20
Statistics in this report: https://uasg.tech/wp-content/uploads/documents/UASG027-en-digital.pdf
Sarmad Hussain - ICANN Org
02:02:38
On acceptance on email addresses by websites globally
Sarmad Hussain - ICANN Org
02:05:13
Current status of UA here: https://uasg.tech/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/UA-Readiness-Report-FY21.pdf
Maria Kolesnikova
02:05:38
End users can also complaint on any software or resource which is not UA ready here: https://uasg.tech/global-support-center/
Seda Akbulut
02:05:47
Report on more than 1000websites ability to acceptemail addresses based onthe new top-level domains.https://uasg.tech/wp-content/uploads/documents/UASG017-endigital.pdf
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:07:03
Is it the Council that should have a Liaison to the UA group (as the Councilors are just the policy managers), or should it be the Cs and SGs that have liaisons?
Seda Akbulut
02:07:37
Country-basedEvaluation ofWebsites forAcceptance ofEmail Addressesin 2020 https://uasg.tech/wp-content/uploads/documents/UASG027-en-digital.pdf
desiree_miloshevic
02:08:42
Thanks Neda for the links.
Maria Kolesnikova
02:08:44
That is really critical as it is expected to get more IDNs during the second round of New gTLD Program....
Maria Kolesnikova
02:09:06
Thank you all for the call.
Dr Ajay Data (India)
02:09:28
Thank you GNSO for the opportunity to talk to you. Looking forward to see you soon and we will send you info as desired.
Nathalie Peregrine - ICANN Org
02:11:43
SPS Wrap Up: Wed 24 November 06:00 UTC
Nathalie Peregrine - ICANN Org
02:14:40
Theresa, as well as Lars Hoffman and Karen Lentz are on the call to speak to this item.
Karen Lentz
02:15:06
@Nathalie can you please also promote Isabelle Colas to speak to this?
Nathalie Peregrine - ICANN Org
02:16:04
Isabelle has been promoted 🙂
Karen Lentz
02:17:59
Thanks!
Karen Lentz
02:18:20
We can cover these questions in the presentation if that is appropriate here
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
02:18:56
we mostly need answers, we saw the paper
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:22:59
In theory, the more involved ICANN Org and the Liaisons from the Board during the PDPs, the less often these changes should be necessary, right?
Karen Lentz
02:24:40
@Jeff in theory yes … there will always be some that were not anticipated
Karen Lentz
02:25:19
And worth considering how the processes may provide for that involvement
Mary Wong - ICANN Org
02:25:29
@Jeff, in addition, as Isabelle has noted, while this thought exercise focuses on the topic of how adopted Consensus Policies can be amended, it may be helpful (assuming the Council and GNSO community agree) to look at gaps and potential solutions across the policy lifecycle, including during the policy development phase.
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
02:25:32
a. seems to be dangerous - who modifies approved policies between GNSO and the Board?
Mary Wong - ICANN Org
02:26:26
@Maxim, the example there is the GNSO’s amending the Red Cross policy recommendations (pursuant to Section 16 of the GNSO PDP Manual.)
Marika Konings
02:26:33
@Maxim - that processes is outlined in section 16 of the GNSO Operating Procedures (Amendments or Modifications of Approved Policies).
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:26:49
@Mary - I think that should be the first focus (how to identify gaps during the Policy Process as opposed to only discovering them after the policy work is done).
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
02:28:40
it would be more productive to have such papers sent to GNSO prior to the meeting and having actual discussion during the limited time of GNSO Council meeting
Mary Wong - ICANN Org
02:29:28
@Jeff and everyone - it will definitely be helpful if the Council wishes to share its view about how it wishes to proceed and what it thinks important to focus on.
Kurt Pritz
02:30:27
Did the three questions get answered?
Kurt Pritz
02:30:42
I think it would be worth taking time for that
Tomslin Samme-Nlar
02:30:48
The last question didn't seem to have been answered
Theresa Swinehart
02:31:06
Thank you all, we’re looking forward to the discussion and good suggestion on next steps.
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
02:31:35
next time we would benefit from being able to read slides in advance instead of reading the presentation
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
02:31:48
during the call
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:32:30
@Maxim - yes. One of the key points from Melissa Algood during the SPS was that we should focus less on slides in our meetings and more on active discussions.
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:34:03
On SubPro, it would be good for the Council to discuss the paper from Steve on "guidance" for the ODP Liaison as well as the substantive issues just sent around to the Council
Steve Chan - ICANN Org
02:36:39
From Caitlin actually…
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:40:53
Most important one for now is the process to review the "proposed responses" and get those back to the ODP team in a timely manner
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:42:01
Do we want a small team set up to review the responses?
Paul McGrady
02:42:33
Jeff - thanks for these updates. Definitely feels like you are building the plane midflight! Good luck!
Jeff Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:42:45
The longer the council takes to respond, the longer the ODP could take (IMHO)
Stephanie Perrin
02:42:49
Agree it would be good to get slides in advance, save time in presentation, prompts deeper questions.
Manju Chen
02:43:01
maybe just posting to mailing list and all can review, not sure we need another small team
Thomas Rickert (ISPCP)
02:43:21
Thanks all! Bye!
Flip Petillion
02:43:22
Bye!
Tomslin Samme-Nlar
02:43:28
Thanks all
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
02:43:34
bye all
John McElwaine
02:43:37
bye