Logo

ICANN75 - Hall 7BC - 21 Sep AM Sessions - Shared screen with speaker view
Maxim Alzoba (RySG)
02:07:52
hello all
Farzaneh Badii
02:10:49
138 people interested in Internet fragmentation? boogeyman is scary.
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID)
02:11:03
echo
Farzaneh Badii
02:11:19
yeah totally
Dave Kissoondoyal - ALAC
02:11:25
Hello everyone
Ron da Silva
02:11:29
pretty bad echo..
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID)
02:11:32
audio is heavily affected
Ananda Gautam
02:11:34
eco in mic
Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong
02:11:43
Hello All / Bonsoir à tous
Ron da Silva
02:11:48
Thales - mute..
Nigel Hickson GAC UK
02:11:48
Good morning all
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID)
02:11:54
someone forgot to put a mic off
Lavish Mawuena Mensah (ICANN75 Fellow)
02:11:58
Greetings to all...
Farzaneh Badii
02:12:05
perfect
Ron da Silva
02:12:07
thanks
Shadrach Ankrah
02:12:16
Good now
Moustapha Abakar Abdramane (ICANN75 fellow)
02:12:27
Bonjour à tous, Moustapha Abakar from Chad, ICANN75 fellow
Shadrach Ankrah
02:12:43
Good morning everyone
Andrea Glandon - ICANN Org
02:12:45
Hello, my name is Andrea Glandon, and I will be monitoring this chat pod. In this role, I am the voice for the remote participants.Interpretation for this session includes Arabic, Chinese, French, Russian, and Spanish.Click the interpretation icon in the Zoom toolbar to select your preferred language output.
Andrea Glandon - ICANN Org
02:12:56
If you wish to speak during the designated discussion time for our virtual participants, please click “raise hand” in the Zoom toolbar. Before speaking, please mute all devices and notifications. Please ensure that you have selected your preferred language input. Please speak clearly and at a reasonable pace to allow for accurate interpretation. Once the moderator states your name, please unmute your microphone and state your name.For in-person participants, if you would like to ask a question, please go to one of the standing microphones in the room.
Andrea Glandon - ICANN Org
02:13:21
When submitting a comment or question that you would like me to read out loud, please start with a “<COMMENT>” and end with “<COMMENT>” or start with “<QUESTION>” and end with “<QUESTION>”. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.To view the real time transcription, click “closed captioning” in the Zoom toolbar.Please note that the content of this chat pod will be archived and follows the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior: http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/expected-standards.
Nigel Hickson GAC UK
02:15:26
Yes as Amanda says please do post questions (in specified way) but also make comments.
Farzaneh Badii
02:16:59
Internet was far more than a poster child of globalization.
Bruna Martins dos Santos
02:17:06
Welcome everyone! And yes, please join the discussion
Jorge Cancio
02:17:45
really good to have Farzi as at least one female voice amongst the panelists - although we should be more careful with gender diversity of such community plenaries
Bruna Martins dos Santos
02:18:09
+1
Amrita Choudhury
02:18:11
+1
Farzaneh Badii
02:18:52
we should be jorge! thank you
Nigel Hickson GAC UK
02:19:26
Welcome Farzaneh
Farzaneh Badii
02:19:32
well SSAC also should work on its gender diversity
Farzaneh Badii
02:19:35
hello Nigel
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
02:19:58
is blockchain part of the discussion today?
Farzaneh Badii
02:20:03
no
Jorge Cancio
02:20:54
fyi a very recent overview of discussions about Internet fragmentation from Kevin Kohler, available under https://css.ethz.ch/content/dam/ethz/special-interest/gess/cis/center-for-securities-studies/pdfs/Cyber-Reports-2022-08-One-Two-or-Two-Hundred-Internets.pdf
Bill Jouris
02:21:19
A smple Yes/No question, but the accurate answer is more like "maybe, and in some cases"
Anne Aikman-Scalese
02:21:37
Thanks Jorge!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:21:38
indeed @Bill
Jorge Cancio
02:21:43
indeed… there are different aspects…
James Bladel
02:21:47
(Response will vary depending upon geography)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:22:02
yup
Jothan Frakes
02:22:09
This topic is fragmented, too
Pablo Hinojosa
02:22:21
what's the menti number?
Pari Esfandiari
02:22:22
no block chain is not part of conversation.
Farzaneh Badii
02:22:27
who is gonna pick up the fragments after this session
Jothan Frakes
02:22:32
I asked 5 people what this session was about and got 5 distinct answers
Jorge Cancio
02:22:44
or the splints?
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:22:45
ohh dear
Suzanne Woolf
02:22:49
@Jothan that may not be a bad thing :-)
Jothan Frakes
02:23:01
sure, there are a diversity of perspectives
Chris Buckridge
02:23:11
Excellent framing by JC
Leif Sawyer - Fellow
02:23:11
iF Meta/Facebook has their way, it'll be even more fragmented.... :-/
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:23:14
note the results displayed6
Jamie Gillespie
02:23:14
@Pablo the poll is triggered within Zoom
Levy Syanseke - ICANN75 Fellow
02:23:20
It's how everyone sees fragmentation differently.
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
02:23:31
@Jothan A Tower of Babel session? :)
Pablo Hinojosa
02:23:35
I missed it as I joined late.
Farzaneh Badii
02:24:02
oh Crain just kind of said what I wanted to say... pft.
Chris Buckridge
02:24:11
😂
avri doria
02:24:51
tied to vote no, but it weouldnot record it.
Farzaneh Badii
02:25:21
we are 50/50 then Avri
Andrea Glandon - ICANN Org
02:26:12
When submitting a comment or question that you would like me to read out loud, please start with a “<COMMENT>” and end with “<COMMENT>” or start with “<QUESTION>” and end with “<QUESTION>”. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.
Joe Alagna - it.com
02:26:20
Fragmentation IMHO, encompasses many more ideas than just alt roots. There are countries, companies, and powerful groups whose goal is more control and, in a sense, fragmentation. I've been to countries where, in a group, when asked "What is the Internet?, the majority didn't know. Then when subsequently, "What is Facebook? (no disrespect to Facebook), They all raised their hands.
Nigel Hickson GAC UK
02:27:15
Aim of session (or an aim) is exactly to have discussion that makes us think a bit more, hope this is happening
Joe Alagna - it.com
02:27:25
I'm not a big proponent of blockchain alts but they shouldn't be ignored. They should certainly be discussed (maybe not here, but somewhere in ICANN).
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
02:27:30
The Walled Gardens of the 1990s on a larger scale?
Farzaneh Badii
02:27:38
to "think" Nigel?
Nigel Hickson GAC UK
02:27:53
This link may also be useful; https://dnsrf.org/blog/standards--the-new-frontier-for-the-free-and-open-internet/index.html
Jothan Frakes
02:28:34
research foundation…. ok. I had initially thought RF was Russian Federation
Achille G. Eye - ICANN75 Fellow
02:28:36
<QUESTION>Based on the poll, 53% responded that the Internet is fragmentated, so what is ICANN doing or can do to fix this </QUESTION>
Tatiana Tropina
02:28:42
New NewIP. Nigel. Sigh. There is no new IP, it's merel ya concept.
Tatiana Tropina
02:28:56
*merely a concept
Farzaneh Badii
02:29:12
Because 53% think it's happening doesn't mean ICANN should be doing something about it
Jothan Frakes
02:29:13
thanks for URL @nigel
Jorge Cancio
02:29:23
question: how many people answered the first polling question?
Tatiana Tropina
02:29:39
I didn’t - I would have answered no
Tatiana Tropina
02:30:05
but was too late to join the Zoom (now realising that a great conversation happening here 😄 which makes us all thinking)
Alyssa Quinn
02:30:05
Ram use the term "centralized DNS," which I think is a bit of a misnomer and ought to be avoided. The strength of the DNS is that it is distributed (but operating by common rules/protocols)
Jeffrey Neuman
02:30:07
We all have the blame for a fragmented Internet. Either by wanting to regulate, or discouraging innovation, or being to slow to act, or wanting to maintain control. But we should never be taking about “them”, but rather look inward.
Bruna Martins dos Santos
02:30:09
Results of the poll were: 53% Yes and 47% No
Andrea Glandon - ICANN Org
02:30:10
130 people answered the first poll. 69% said yes, 61 No.
James Bladel
02:30:33
Agreed, @Jeff.
Tatiana Tropina
02:30:40
Alyssa, agree with you so much. Protocols (common language) is not centralisation. It's a glue.
Andrea Glandon - ICANN Org
02:30:40
I'm sorry, my numbers were the number of people who answered, not percentages.
Suhayb
02:30:45
it's fragmentation to ICANN but for internet users it's called DECENTRALIZATION.
James Bladel
02:31:13
The DNS is arguably already decentralized.
Peter Madavhu
02:31:34
Maybe we needed more time to respond to the question
Eunice Pérez Coello
02:31:37
cuales son las alternativas qué se han planteado para minimizar la fragmentación?
Ram Mohan
02:31:38
Alyssa, I agree - I could have worded it more artfully
Farzaneh Badii
02:31:41
also DNS is way too broad. if user experience is impacted through the criticial organizations that run the allocation of domain name and IP addresses then yes that is fragmentation. but if it's happening in other spaces on DNS, (which is happening) merely not having access to quality online service on the Internet doesn't mean Internet is fragmenting
Lavish Mawuena Mensah (ICANN75 Fellow)
02:31:48
<QUESTION>The world from its inception has been a blend of various variables... Could there be a possibility for the blend of having a decentralised and fragmented internet? and what would be the percentage of blend? <QUESTION>
Tatiana Tropina
02:32:22
Internet is not fragmenting.
Ram Mohan
02:32:25
The DNS is very decentralized. I meant to speak about the hierarchical root based system, rather than anything else.
Paul D. McGrady
02:32:45
The Internet was meant to be decentralized. What is the working definitional difference between decentralization and fragmentation? Is fragmentation simply just decentralization that no one in the early days expected?
Peter Koch
02:32:51
DNS is a distributed System experiencing increasing concentration which , in turn, might foster fragmentation
Yuri Takamatsu(.jp)
02:33:06
@AndreaThank you for sharing the result!
Nigel Hickson GAC UK
02:33:08
@Tatiana, good (new IP)
Andrea Glandon - ICANN Org
02:33:19
Thank you, the questions in the chat have been noted.
Farzaneh Badii
02:33:20
exactly Peter. MIGHT
Tatiana Tropina
02:33:25
Internet is actually fragmented (decentralised mesh of networks) but surely it is not fragmentation that is discussed here
Jothan Frakes
02:33:36
decentralized with competent guard rails should be our common objective
Leif Sawyer - Fellow
02:33:47
@Paul - decentarlized means no single power controls the content or access. Fragmentation is where single powers control content and access for a portion of users.
Suzanne Woolf
02:33:49
The concept "centralized" is easier to deal with when we can answer the question "centralized with respect to what chracteristic?”
Owen Smigelski (Namecheap)
02:33:52
My Internet is fragmented, as silly Zoom has kicked me out of this session 4 or 5 times already
Ram Mohan
02:33:54
degradation of the user experience is the fundamental issue that fragmentation really is about, imo
Jorge Cancio
02:34:13
sorry for posting again, but for those coming in later: fyi a very recent overview of discussions about Internet fragmentation from Kevin Kohler, available under https://css.ethz.ch/content/dam/ethz/special-interest/gess/cis/center-for-securities-studies/pdfs/Cyber-Reports-2022-08-One-Two-or-Two-Hundred-Internets.pdf
Tatiana Tropina
02:34:13
@Nigel when I hear that NewIP is an immediate threat of fragmentation my blood boils (sorry),
Yoshiro Yoneya
02:34:19
What we need is single or a few root of trust (trust anchor) for name resolution.
Eunice Pérez Coello
02:34:41
cual es su opinión sobre las compañías que están regresando a crear sus propios protocolos cerrados, pensando que estamos regresando a los inicios del desarrollo tecnologico? y si estas compañías o fabricantes están involucrandose en estas sesiones y sensibilización?
Farzaneh Badii
02:34:42
no Ram. if that is the case then degredation of users experience has already happened, when peering can't happen for example.
Tatiana Tropina
02:34:59
Owen, Zoom is expelling you from the walled garden. Reverse fragmentation
Andrea Glandon - ICANN Org
02:35:04
Briefing Paper: Internet Fragmentation, the DNS, and ICANN: https://75.schedule.icann.org/meetings/nLvLMBAy7uLLS7EZo
Paul D. McGrady
02:35:10
@Leif, thanks for the thought. Of course, we are told content is off the table at ICANN, so are we simply talking about access or is there something more to this session?
Jothan Frakes
02:35:16
thank you Andrea, very helpful
Jorge Cancio
02:35:17
decentralization is akin to federalism; fragmentation is akin to dismembering something that formerly was a unity
Jacques Latour (CIRA)
02:35:19
fragmentation: interference of traffic flows { rule of law, impact access to end users and industry )
Harald Alvestrand
02:35:29
fragmentation, like the future, is already here, it's just not evenly distributed. (Ref China, Russia).
Farzaneh Badii
02:35:42
I imagined that Jorge
Chris Disspain
02:36:04
are you there??
Tatiana Tropina
02:36:13
Russia and China are still connected to DNS. So ... what is fragmenting exactly? Which internet?
Ram Mohan
02:36:14
Farzaneh, when DNS is intervened without user knowledge or control, it has unexpected and potentially problematic impacts on how users can experience their apps or sites or emails or other useful systems
gabriel karsan
02:36:17
Based on the 3 fundamental principles openness, decentralization and end to end delivery the user has the ultimate choice on how interaction on the internet as a resource occurs and the abstract Nature of the DNS is to promote these pillars, but when parties interfere with the ability of the user to base on these principles that’s a threat as it fails to stand on the democratic element of the internet as a whole with the majority benefiting from the resource
Chris Disspain
02:36:17
sorry everyone!
Olivier Girard
02:36:25
IMO, decentralization does not imply a lack of interconnectivity. Fragmentation does.
Shreedeep Rayamajhi
02:36:35
technology difference is further creating fragmentation
Rick Lane
02:36:52
+1 Paul McGrady
Eunice Pérez Coello
02:37:01
la fragmentación esta empezando desde la industria de hw y sw, adicionalmente tecnologías de telecomunicaciones, ¿alternativas para sensibilización? ¿algún caso de éxito?
Stephanie Perrin
02:37:07
Clearly we all understand fragmentation in different ways
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID)
02:37:12
there are ISPs , and they can filter AS they do not like, and the more they do it, the harder it is to say that the networks are universally connected
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
02:37:17
it sounds like an issue of expectations
Ram Mohan
02:37:19
@Harald+1
Ron da Silva
02:37:29
seems like the panel is all saying why fragmentation is bad.. might be more interesting if someone was providing a contrarian view for debate..
Paul D. McGrady
02:37:43
I appreciate all the various answers to my question about the difference between decentralization and fragmentation. Lots to think about here.
Farzaneh Badii
02:37:53
how users experience their apps has been different in many circumstances
Jorge Cancio
02:38:11
IMO federalism and subsidiarity is a great thing, as long as there is a seamless end to end connectivity and a common vision - but bifurcation and the creation of national DNS (as described by Kevin Kohler) put that in danger
Nigel Hickson GAC UK
02:38:19
@Paul - a good question, put your flag up!
Ram Mohan
02:38:20
@Ron, you could provide the contrarian view here
Chris Disspain
02:38:36
@ Jorge +1
Jacques Latour (CIRA)
02:38:53
@ron fragmentation would be good when space aliens are trying to merge with our internet?
Bruna Martins dos Santos
02:38:57
@Ron its a fair point, and we will have an open mic moment/Q&A, so feel free to provide any possible/contrarian/complementing views.
Olivier Girard
02:39:08
@Jorge +1
Ram Mohan
02:39:27
There is a good paper on confronting the reality of fragmentation: https://www.cfr.org/report/confronting-reality-in-cyberspace
Anne Aikman-Scalese
02:39:41
It starts to look as though the ICANN DNS has competition issues and must learn how to market to consumers and institutions why its services are superior and safer.
DANKO Jevtović
02:40:07
@Ron -- it all depends on values. For some fragmentation and blockings are the goal, as they support their vaues
Eunice Pérez Coello
02:40:31
El otro punto es el gobierno, el espectro electromagnético esta separado por región, misma tecnología no interopelabilidad
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
02:40:43
is "fragmentation" merely the tension between private-sector control and government control?
Tomslin Samme-Nlar
02:41:16
If a new naming protocol used in a "separate network" but made to be interoperable with the DNS, is that fragmentation?
Leif Sawyer - Fellow
02:41:17
@Thomas - both government and private-sector have their own forms of fragmentation
Jothan Frakes
02:41:41
good Q Tomslin
Leif Sawyer - Fellow
02:42:06
Private-sector has an economic incentivation to fragment and control, as it funnels all the money into their coffers
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
02:42:12
@Leif good point. but the private-sector fragmentation appears to be out of scope for today's discussion, yes?
Nigel Hickson GAC UK
02:42:22
@Thomas - good point; think probably more to it
Sivasubramanian M
02:42:32
@Ram The CFR report has a headline that says it is a utopian vision to have a Open, secure and global Internet. It is not.
Eunice Pérez Coello
02:42:37
la fragmentación involucra tanbien la perspectiva social ya qué se usa la manipulación en la toma de decisiones
Leif Sawyer - Fellow
02:42:44
Government has the incentivtion to control the information going to its constituancy.
Paul D. McGrady
02:43:02
I would have liked to hear from the BC in this session. Seems like they might have a view.
Nigel Hickson GAC UK
02:43:03
@Thomas - no not out of scope (private sector)
Chris Disspain
02:43:22
it seems to me that because there are so many different things that folks could call fragmentation we might be better served by discussing specific thiongs rather than the general term 'fragmentation’…
Mallory Knodel
02:43:23
@Ram I think the rebuttal for the CFR paper is far more compelling reading http://www.lawfareblog.com/defense-global-open-internet-0
Eunice Pérez Coello
02:43:24
¿Cuál es el punto de equilibrio? ¿se ha planteado eso?
Jothan Frakes
02:43:25
Fair point @PaulMcGrady
Rick Lane
02:43:52
Agree
Lito Ibarra
02:44:06
Fragmentation also means losing the ability to make business, education, partnerships, etc. around the world in an efficient manner
Shreedeep Rayamajhi
02:44:26
fragmentation in business vs government both are repulsive to each other
Joe Alagna - it.com
02:44:31
+1 Chris D
Hadia Elminiawi (ALAC-Participant)
02:44:39
+1 Lito fragmentation hurts on many levels
Jothan Frakes
02:44:59
Netflix behaves differently based upon GeoIP - is that fragmentation or respect of content licensing
Leif Sawyer - Fellow
02:45:02
Fragmentation == discrimination
WANG Lang
02:45:14
<COMMENT>Fragmentation is a complicated issue and many organizations might be involved. Based on the mission and vision, ICANN can focus on the logic layer and maybe part of the infrastructure layer I think, according to the three-layer-model of IG. As to the content layer, include media, finance, and access to all kinds of APP etc, there could be other organizations which should mainly focus on it. </COMMENT>
Dave Kissoondoyal - ALAC
02:45:24
How about manipulation of routing tables to divert internet traffic?
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
02:45:56
Netflix and the content providers make money from segmenting their markets but depend on a functioning Internet.
Eunice Pérez Coello
02:46:01
¿nos puente comentar un caso de éxito donde había antes una negación entre gobiernos y ahora llegaron a la misma Visión?
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
02:46:07
is there any fragmentation that ICANN is not to concern itself about?
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID)
02:46:18
routing tables are local to that AS bunch you control
Eunice Pérez Coello
02:46:21
¿nos pueden comentar un caso de éxito donde había antes una negación entre gobiernos y ahora llegaron a la misma Visión?
Jothan Frakes
02:46:22
So is segmenting the friendly term for fragmenting?
Jothan Frakes
02:46:36
ie sanitation engineer vs janitor
Wisdom Donkor
02:47:04
A small number of large companies have a significant impact on the development and adoption of the open technical standards that underpin the open, collaborative, and interoperable Internet. Organizational size and market share also have a big impact.There is the need to engage more, and in particular, the capitalists who appear to be influencing governments, if we are to find a solution to the fragmentation of the internet.
Jacques Latour (CIRA)
02:47:07
Users that have IPv6 only access are fragmented from the rest of the IPv4 internet... Is that a form of fragmentation?
Shreedeep Rayamajhi
02:47:18
at local level fragmentation is controlled locally according to the geography and power so how can it be standarized
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
02:47:26
Not quite. The movie/rights wars of the 1990s with the broadcasters were very weird. They need a segmented market because rights are sold on that basis.
Chris Buckridge
02:47:35
So how do we prevent entropy?
Eunice Pérez Coello
02:47:35
¿de que manera icann se está adaptando a esta problemática? ¿definiendo nuevos grupos de discusion?
Shreedeep Rayamajhi
02:47:50
<question> at local level fragmentation is controlled locally according to the geography and power so how can it be standarized</question>
Chris Buckridge
02:47:53
(sorry, Asimov joke)
Jothan Frakes
02:48:42
good one Chris, you got a nerdgiggle from me
Jacques Latour (CIRA)
02:49:18
https://icannwiki.org/Internet_Fragmentation
Joe Alagna - it.com
02:49:58
This thread contains a cornucopia of the various types of possible forms of fragmentation or segmentation in all forms. It'd be good to catalog them for future discussions. It will also help us to determine which types matter or don't so much.
Eunice Pérez Coello
02:50:10
¿algún consejo para acercarse a la gente de nuestro país para que nos escuchen, cuando ya ni el IGF esta presente?
Alfredo Calderon - VSIG
02:50:34
Another article is on SPLINTERNET
Alfredo Calderon - VSIG
02:50:36
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splinternet
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:50:53
I trust the chat is captured for this session
Joe Alagna - it.com
02:51:02
Surely
Mirai Yan
02:51:12
<QUESTION> Does the practice of Big IT to block users count as fragmentation when it comes to public policy discourse?</QUESTION><COMMENT> I don't think fragmentation issue shall be focus on geopolitical drives, rather, it is more on the differences over the core on the political stands itself.</COMMMENT>
Leif Sawyer - Fellow
02:51:16
typoes and al
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
02:51:52
so, fragmentation may be OK if users are aware when they are experiencing it.
Andrea Glandon - ICANN Org
02:52:03
okay noted.
Jothan Frakes
02:52:12
perhaps if they opt in to it Tom
Paul D. McGrady
02:52:14
@Ram, now we have to define "works." I tried to watch House of Dragons here in JL, but HBO app didn't supply the content. But, it did tell me why it wasn't going to supply the content, so the connectivity of the Internet "worked" even if I didn't have the user experience that I wanted.
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
02:52:21
fragmentation is bad if users are not expecting it.
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
02:52:28
Fragmentation is dangerous when users are unaware it is happening,
Eunice Pérez Coello
02:52:37
¿exist any education group of academics and students when we create a same line?
Wisdom Donkor
02:52:38
The unified or global internet, which is the opposite of an internet that is fragmented, allows all participants to theoretically interconnect regardless of their location or access method. Practically speaking, this means that end users can access the same information (such as newspapers) or services (such as search or social sites) no matter where they are. Although user characteristics, such as computer literacy, can affect networking opportunities, they do not reflect the strength or weakness of the internet's unity. The "digital divide," or disparities in internet use due to geography, generation, or income, is not a concern of the unified internet. Additionally, the literature on political or other restrictions on internet access for specific populations needs to be distinguished from the fragmentation debate.
Bruna Martins dos Santos
02:52:42
@Eunice, on the IGF, this years program adopted “Avoiding Internet Fragmentation” as one of the main topics/overarching themes, and there’s also going to be a lot of sessions on this topic, in alignment with the Global Digital Compact.
Tomslin Samme-Nlar
02:52:52
@Thomas, you mean if we redefine what "Internet user experience " is?
Jorge Cancio
02:53:22
ICANN has IMO a central role in continuing to perform its coordination functions of the DNS - however, maybe such functions require some shielding (what some call the protection of the „public core of the Internet“)
Farzaneh Badii
02:53:43
I have a comment
Priyatosh Jana
02:53:45
<question> How internet fragmentation issues can be resolved locally from an end user perspective </question>
Suzanne Woolf
02:53:53
John just made a really important point: things will continue to change. Some changes affect what we consider the fundamental properties needed for interoperability and scalability; some don’t. Not all impacts on those fundamental characteristics are bad, either. But it does seem that without interoperability, we lose the ability to make shared decisions about how to make the rest of the system better.
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
02:54:07
@tomslin not everyone needs or wants global compatibility
Ram Mohan
02:54:18
DNS intervention is a problem when users are unaware of the intervention, and have no ability to reverse it. That messes with predictability and stability.
Carl Frank
02:54:22
<comment> yet ICANN must remain within its Bylaws, which do not deal with content </comment>
Farzaneh Badii
02:54:38
hahaha that analogy is good Paul.
Tomslin Samme-Nlar
02:54:39
But do they want interoperability @Thomas?
Dave Kissoondoyal - ALAC
02:54:44
There is the hybrid car as well which use both
Sivasubramanian M
02:54:48
@Paul IPv6 can be invaluable in correcting certain aspects of fragmentation.
Stephanie Perrin
02:55:00
That is a very useful analogy, electric and gas powered cars
Paul Wilson
02:55:54
Thanks Farzi.
Mohammed Awal Alhassan
02:56:01
<SELF INTORDUCTION> Mohammed Awal from Ghana. Ghanasig Fellow participating in ICANN conference for the first time to learn and network with you all in the mist of these interesting discussions. Kindly connect with me on mohammed.alhassan@ghanasig.org or https://www.linkedin.com/in/mohammed-awal-alhassan-7702951a9or https://twitter.com/Alhassa51457950?t=gad7xAvs146Q2XVt4jwzrQ&s=09 <SELF INTRODUCTION>
Suzanne Woolf
02:56:04
@Thomas then they don't have to use it, but taking it away from people who do want compatibility/interoperability doesn't seem like a good answer.
Ram Mohan
02:56:06
@DaveKissoondoyal, to your hybrid car analogy, consider what happens when the road size is changed without your knowledge and your car no longer fits or can go. You are stranded on your island.
Farzaneh Badii
02:56:15
also having the interoperable motorways. I am impressed Paul.
Jorge Cancio
02:56:20
<comment> ICANN has IMO a central role in continuing to perform its coordination functions of the DNS - however, maybe such functions require some shielding (what some call the protection of the „public core of the Internet“). And it should continue to work on its inclusivity and diversity, as basic foundations of its legitimacy. <comment end>
Suzanne Woolf
02:56:45
There's a big difference between not using certain charcteristics of the TCP/IP internet, and trying to prevent them from being available at all.
avri doria
02:56:48
listening to the frag between ipv4 and Ipv6 be explained away, i beleive that every bit of assumed fragging can be explained away by a good story teller.
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
02:57:09
@suzanne agreed. the end user should have the ultimate choice and control
Paul D. McGrady
02:57:15
+1 James. That is why I asked for definitions up front. This conversation, while interesting, is so wide ranging that I'm not sure what our takeaways are meant to be.
Mats Dufberg
02:57:30
As long as some parts of Internet is IPv4 only and other parts are IPv6 only, the too slow migration from IPv4 to IPv6 does adds to the fragmentation of Internet.
Jothan Frakes
02:57:32
completely agree Paul
Ashley Heineman - RrSG Chair / GoDaddy
02:57:33
Farzi has her hand up as a panelist, Nigel.
Ram Mohan
02:58:01
@MalloryKnodel - thanks for the link - I'll devour it later today
Sivasubramanian M
02:58:26
If Internet was allowed to evolve the way it naturally began evolving, there wouldn't have been the kind of fragmentation that we see today.
Bruna Martins dos Santos
02:58:34
Im also trying to flag Farzanehs hand to Pari
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
02:58:42
bottom-up fragmentation (under control of the end user) is OK, Top-down fragmentation (under the control of govt/big tech) is not ok?
Stephanie Perrin
02:58:51
I think Chris D had a very useful suggestion to talk, instead of about fragmentation, about the various which comprise a perceived fragmentation.
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
02:58:56
As Netflix and Sky/DirecTV/Canal Plus before it found out the hard way, technology and people will always find a way around their segmentation (rather than fragmentation).
Sivasubramanian M
02:59:03
Numbers were fragmented first, then protocols were phased out one by one.
Jothan Frakes
02:59:06
I see a very patient FarziHand
Sivasubramanian M
02:59:12
Some necessarily, and some excessively
Farzaneh Badii
02:59:15
I am being very patient!
Jothan Frakes
02:59:44
with zoom video you might be able to use semiphore
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:59:51
perhaps @Andrea can let the panel know
Andrea Glandon - ICANN Org
03:00:07
Thank you, the panel is aware of Farzaneh's hand.
Joe Alagna - it.com
03:00:10
@Sivasubramanian - Your point is a good one.
Farzaneh Badii
03:00:14
it's ok. we will get there. thanks Andrea
Sivasubramanian M
03:00:23
Thank you @Joe
Farzaneh Badii
03:00:46
emerging identifiers is within ICANN mandate?
Benjamin Akinmoyeje
03:01:02
The first thing that is important in this conversation is to understand what is the meaning of Internet Fragmentation by this community.
Tatiana Tropina
03:01:07
why everybody is making a comment and Farzaneh who has his hand up for ages is not given the floor??? just asking.
Nigel Hickson GAC UK
03:01:13
+1, Farzaneh
Tatiana Tropina
03:01:14
seriously, Nigel and all.
Joe Alagna - it.com
03:01:14
We have not fully utilized / encouraged the maximum use of the original hierarchical nature of the DNS. In some ways, we have discouraged it.
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
03:01:24
@farzaneh I think the answer is no.
David Charles Lawrence; Salesforce.com, Inc.
03:01:27
It's not *automatically* bad, but sometimes it still is bad.
Farzaneh Badii
03:01:39
I thought so.
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
03:01:42
And I thought that defining DNS Abuse was difficult. Defining fragmentation is magnitudes more difficult.
Velimira NEMIGUENTCHEVA GRAU
03:01:47
+1 RAM on defensiveness aspect
Sivasubramanian M
03:01:49
Laws have been enacted, restraints have been placed in various quarters, one after another, without any harmony, and without understanding, one could ever say that fear ruled the Internet rather than hope
Andrea Glandon - ICANN Org
03:01:52
I will be going to Farzaneh's hand very shortly. I see you Farzaneh 🙂
Joe Alagna - it.com
03:01:57
I can expand on that but doing it here would be hard.
Anne Aikman-Scalese
03:01:59
+1 Tatiana - someone needs to recognize Farzeneh.
Bruna Martins dos Santos
03:02:01
I am very sorry about this, Farzaneh, and thanks for pointing that all everyone. I have tried to flag this like 5x times now
Bruna Martins dos Santos
03:02:07
We’ll get to you
Leif Sawyer - Fellow
03:02:16
Remember that we've been through the fragmentation before: Bitnet, novell, ax.25, ATM, banyan vines, decnet, appletalk, and others.Those were all industry enforced until the economy of not playing in IP forced the conversion.But it's much harder avoid when the fragmentation is legislated and mandated by goverments
Tatiana Tropina
03:02:28
Thank you Andrea. I just was a bit puzzled because I saw Farzaneh's request for comment like ages ago. Farzaneh, apologies for bringing this up
Farzaneh Badii
03:02:28
Thank you everybody. it's goinng to be fine. I appreciate the support
Jorge Cancio
03:03:07
still a bit „manel“ish?
Tatiana Tropina
03:03:28
I even wrote “Farzaneh has HIS hand up" (faceplam) - I meant her 😄
Jothan Frakes
03:03:33
I hear Ram approaching the altrooty stuff we are seeing in blockchain or elsewhere
Joe Alagna - it.com
03:03:38
Good points Ram - It's already happened / happening.
Tatiana Tropina
03:03:44
anyway. Not really manel-ish :-)
Tomslin Samme-Nlar
03:04:10
not just embracing and understanding new protocols, DNS protocol should evolve to interoperate with these protocols for a good user experience
Jothan Frakes
03:04:13
there are already lawsuits between alt-roots on strings like .wallet
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
03:04:15
Blockchain has one fundamental vulnerability in this context. If the underlying algoritms are compromised, trust is lost.
Joe Alagna - it.com
03:04:15
But these are legitimately not under our control
Farzaneh Badii
03:04:15
it's ok. I don't get female male pronouns anyway. we don't have those in Farsi and I get confused all the time
Ray Fassett
03:04:29
Are there RFC's that define what Ram is explaining?
Anne Aikman-Scalese
03:04:36
Support the notion of education to end users as just described.
Sivasubramanian M
03:04:42
One necessarily change in DNS to address fragmentation is for the RIRs redefine their structures as non-geographical regions, it is a bit complex, but could be done.
Joe Alagna - it.com
03:05:04
The key for ICANN is to continue innovating and taking full advantage of the advantages of what we have here to keep it the best choice for end users.
Joe Alagna - it.com
03:05:43
Sorry, that was worded funny but we have virtues that will be hard to duplicate otherwise.
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
03:05:47
In the Outlaw Josey Whales terms,, ICANN should endeavor to persevere?
Fatihah Bazir
03:05:52
Too slow progress from IPv4 to IPv6 due to incompatibility of supporting certain processes from ISP's where creates and adding fragmentation to the internet.
Glenn McKnight - VSIG
03:06:28
https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/feature/The-splinternet-explained-Everything-you-need-to-know
Jothan Frakes
03:06:39
thanks glenn
Joe Alagna - it.com
03:06:50
The IANA root system is still the best thing going in the world of roots.
Bill Jouris
03:06:50
@John, perhaps merely continue to continue?
Sivasubramanian M
03:06:52
... one necessary ... in the DNS is to address... (typo)
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
03:06:55
ICANN's scope is constrained within its unitary root. Its scope does not extend to alternative roots (i.e. blockchain). We need another ICANN equivalent to address governance on the alternative roots.
James Bladel
03:07:08
in my view, ICANN should stop talking about why a universal, unique DNS is ideal, and start -demonstrating- why it is a valuable as a shared resource.
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
03:07:12
@Bill That sounds better. :)
Ram Mohan
03:07:22
@James+1
Jothan Frakes
03:07:31
https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/unique-authoritative-root-2012-02-25-en
Joe Alagna - it.com
03:07:48
James +1 too
Jothan Frakes
03:07:49
Is the link to ICP-3 which kind of walls against altroot _stuff_
Abdullah Cemil AKÇAM (.tr)
03:07:49
@james already demonstrated?
Bill Jouris
03:07:54
@Thomas, you seem to be advocating reinventing the wheel. ICANN is already in place; why invent a whole new organization to do essentially the same function?
Kurt Pritz
03:08:05
It seems that “fragmentation” has already become an ICANN-ism that means different things to different people and, when used as shorthand, will lead to confusion and lack of a common understanding.Can we address that? Maybe always saying “Fragmentation caused by….” or avoiding using the word “fragmentation” but explaining it using other words.
Sivasubramanian M
03:08:11
@James not commenting on the part of your comment, the last line could be "shared resource, in harmony"
Anne Aikman-Scalese
03:08:39
@James - very practical idea - don't see how any other strategy works.
Tatiana Tropina
03:09:12
@Kurt, it's not only at ICANN. In the entire IG space Fragmentation means different things to different people
Suzanne Woolf
03:09:24
@Ray RFC 8499 is an IETF-derived (extremely technical) document describing DNS terminology, particularly as used in DNS -related WGs and drafts.
Peter Koch
03:09:36
v4 vs v6 occurs to me as an interesting thought exercise wrt fragmentation, but in the broader context of „splintering“ it is very likely a distraction
Michael R.
03:10:10
Noting from some of the Chat: Our initial challenge is that the definition of “Fragmentation” (like that of DNS Abuse, etc.) is fragmented. Our first task to understand and determine whether and actions to take in regard to the challenge is to define our terms clearly and finally.
Suzanne Woolf
03:10:12
@Kurt what I was trying to say a few min ago-- contextaround the word “fragmentation" matters.
Alberto Soto
03:10:21
Internet fragmentation is a tower of Babel. These fragments will have no connection to each other
Farzaneh Badii
03:10:54
yes but just voluntary. you don't do anything on when people's domain names get confiscated and suspended because of sanctions because that is the registries' policy which you cannot tell them what to do
David Charles Lawrence; Salesforce.com, Inc.
03:11:09
A cynical wag might suggest that blockchain naming that uses names that look like DNS names are deliberately designed to cause confusion. Not that I'd know anyone so cynical.
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
03:11:33
The private sector led blockchain industry will be forming their own governance orgs to fill the role ICANN performs for the unitary root. But blockchain was supposed to be out of scope for this fragmentation debate.
Michael R.
03:11:38
@David Charles +1 (though I am that cynical)
Sivasubramanian M
03:11:44
@Kurt Fragmentation is happening by both carelessness and by wilful distortion of the design in several facets. In the commercial space, by Government regulation, by fear, by geopolitics, and by TECHNICAL mismanagement of technology.
Bill Jouris
03:12:23
@David Charles, it's not cynicism if it is true.
Glenn McKnight - VSIG
03:12:59
@Tom i was wondering when Blockchain would be brought up:)
Stephanie Perrin
03:13:18
There are many divisions on the Internet..between the rich and the poor in terms of ability to obtain latest technology and adequate bandwidth, and between those who understand what they are doing/using/being attacked by when they access the Internet, and those who don’t.
Anne Aikman-Scalese
03:13:44
Someone is going to have to figure out how to translate this language from the 2001 statement into language that can be understood by the end user: These alternate roots typically substitute insular concerns in place of the community-based processes that govern the management of the authoritative root. Their operators decide to include particular top-level domains in these alternate roots that have not been subjected to the tests of community support and conformance with consensus processes – coordinated by ICANN – that would allow their inclusion in the authoritative root. These decisions of the alternate-root operators have been made without any apparent regard for the fundamental public-interest concern of Internet stability. The widespread use of active domain names in these alternate roots could in fact impair the uniqueness of the authoritative name-resolution mechanism and hence the stability of the DNS.
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
03:13:54
@Thomas One possibility with Blockchain is that the % of services and websites on Blockchain could be higher than that on legacy TLDs. Most (70% or so) domain names have no working websites. The danger for ICANN is that Blockchain registrants (?) might be more motivated to establish usage.
Farzaneh Badii
03:14:38
these alternate roots have never scaled Anne and probably won't for a long time
Eunice Pérez Coello
03:15:33
when development Internet, universities support him, why icann do the same not only organizations? why the academic aparently do not interest solutoons that they provide?
Sivasubramanian M
03:15:39
ICANN Community has been so busy since 1998 restricting the scope of ICANN that ICANN as a collective watched all this fragmentation unfold, fold after fold.
Ray Fassett
03:15:48
Thank you, Suzanne. It would seem RFC 8499 is a place for ICANN to define its scope for this type of discussion
Michael R.
03:15:56
@Farzaneh — They have not scaled YET — all the more reason to address them before they do.
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
03:16:40
I'm mindful that the organizers for some reason wanted to exclude blockchain from today's discussion about fragmentation. It would be helpful for someone to suggest a definition for fragmentation that does not include blockchain applications using their own naming services.
Joe Alagna - it.com
03:16:45
<self serving content> Much of my life's work in the ICANN world has involved promoting the use of sub-domains. Early on, I often felt kind of kicked out of the room. But the truth is that sub domains can be very useful to end users. They present more choices to end users and they exist within the ICANN root. I'm still in that world today with it.com. Hopefully today, since we see alternate roots wishing to disrupt what we have going, I will find more acceptance of the ideas and cooperation to the use of sub-domains. No one complains when aol, google, or Verizon (or any other ISP types around the world issues millions of email addresses to end users. I would propose that we also encourage the use of sub-domains as often as possible. They work according to the original principles put forth in the RFCs written by Postel and the others. </self serving content> :-)
Anne Aikman-Scalese
03:16:51
If we truly believe end users may be harmed, education would need to begin now. We had a presentation in a recent webinar that showed rapid growth in Alt Roots.
Phyo L
03:16:54
ICANN should play one of the key players for addressing the Internet fragmentation. Although the improvements of the Internet is on the one hand, we have to carefully tackle this issue for those who are leaving behind the Internet. Even the research and reports should be conduct regarding this topics in those countries which suffer a lot Internet issues. Thank you.
Farzaneh Badii
03:17:41
sure. when they start scaling they can form their own organization and then compete with ICANN. then we will make a choice between ICANN and this other one
Joe Alagna - it.com
03:17:43
Even the single char domains that we all hold back. They could serve as "channels" online.
Joe Alagna - it.com
03:17:55
All within the existing root.
Jorge Cancio
03:18:32
Hand up
Bruna Martins dos Santos
03:18:39
Chokri and Jorge, I have also seen your hands
Anne Aikman-Scalese
03:21:27
@Sebastien - agree terminology is important. Maybe we need a better name to signify the genuine, authoritative, gold standard service provided by the Interoperable DNS.
Alan Barrett (ICANN Board)
03:21:57
it may be useful to remind people of the languages that they can speak
Farzaneh Badii
03:22:17
you should watch this. it's about DNS fragmentation end of 2016. we had a block domain name company too: https://www.intgovforum.org/multilingual/content/igf-2016-day-4-room-2-ws75-domain-name-system-fragmentation-risk-and-reality
Sivasubramanian M
03:23:27
One, unified Internet may not necessarily imply a 'centralized' Internet.
Namra Naseer ICANN75 Fellow
03:23:49
+1
Wisdom Donkor
03:24:02
Is the internet at risk?
Farzaneh Badii
03:25:26
if governments don't come up with legislations to undermine DNS operation, that would be great too. oh yes! +1000000 Jorge. Immunity of infrastructure would be fantastic
Sivasubramanian M
03:25:38
@Wisdom The answer is in your question itself. You said internet not Internet.
Jothan Frakes
03:25:43
This is a clip from a session at the recent NamesCon where there was a #nofilter discussion between the handshake alt-root architect and Unstoppable Domains related to Unstoppable suing a back end provider over .wallet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZLrqhKpy9Q
Tomslin Samme-Nlar
03:25:59
@Wisdom, we seem to agree here that there is risk of it being fragmented.
Carlos Reyes - ICANN Org
03:27:08
Word Cloud: https://www.menti.com/uwc3a3j8bk
Wisdom Donkor
03:28:26
Political decision-makers and other interested parties should broaden the scope of the discussion in order to pay more attention to alternative outcomes like political structuring and organisational concentration within and outside of transnational engineering networks.
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
03:28:30
if a government decided to launch its own alternative root, say ".RUS" that does not collide with the unitary root, is this fragmentation?
Stephanie Perrin
03:29:16
Very good point about understanding what the actual threats are before the ITU acts...
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
03:29:21
and does ICANN want to include these alternative roots within its community?
Farzaneh Badii
03:29:28
well I'd like to see registrars be more transparent about their domain suspensions when it comes to sanctions.
Nigel Hickson GAC UK
03:30:30
We could have done 2 hours (smile)
Bruna Martins dos Santos
03:30:38
Absolutely!
Andrea Glandon - ICANN Org
03:30:44
Thank you so much for all of the comments and questions. The queues are now close.d
Ray Fassett
03:30:57
ICANN registrars support alt root domains
Farzaneh Badii
03:30:57
why would they want to coordinate with ICANN when they don't want to globally operate.
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
03:31:09
AltRoots have always been a threat to ICANN largely due to name collisions
Ram Mohan
03:31:14
@Farzaneh+1
Jacques Latour (CIRA)
03:31:29
Next meeting we should have a session on "What is the internet going to look like in 50 years?"
David Charles Lawrence; Salesforce.com, Inc.
03:31:59
“Not colliding” is only a statement of existing labels in the unitary root, and presents future obstacles to how the unitary root can manage itself.
Sivasubramanian M
03:32:39
If we can deal with fragmentation and restore policies and technologies to allow the Internet to become as of old, and evolve along the lines it originally began to evolve, the global, One Internet can be a space of harmony and peace that will spill over ground. That requires fear to be replaced by hope. #this comment can only be phrased with these words that may seem a bit out of place. It is not.
Leif Sawyer - Fellow
03:32:49
avoiding collisions is only important for altroot providers/users if they want to also provide fallback to the unitary root namespace.which some specifically do not want
Jothan Frakes
03:32:59
who is dunking on donuts in the survey?
Peter Koch
03:33:00
Alternative roots confuses me terminology wise wrt the current discussion. What we see are “landgrabs” as addenda to the name space and unfortunately the case of .onion was a precedent to that
Farzaneh Badii
03:33:01
so what I wanted to say Jacques was ... Internet is evolving. some elements that are not internet properties might become one in the future.
Abdulkarim Oloyede
03:33:01
+1 Nigel The internet is already fragmented cos access to the internet is skewed.
Adam Peake - ICANN Org
03:33:59
About the IGF Policy Network on Internet Fragmentation https://www.intgovforum.org/en/content/policy-network-on-internet-fragmentation
Jorge Cancio
03:34:16
thx Adam!
Tomslin Samme-Nlar
03:34:51
@Thomas, keeping to user choice and experience, i think if their goal is not to reach any other resource on the Internet, then it is not Internet fragmentation technically.
Maxim Alzoba (FAITID)
03:34:55
thanks all
Wim Degezelle
03:35:16
and the aforementioned IGF PNIF survey can be answered here https://forms.gle/A8G74vMLgf5hvqa37
Stephanie Perrin
03:36:37
Really excellent point about the non-representation of many regions in the ITU, not one of the advantages of the MS model that we think of all the time.
Anne Aikman-Scalese
03:36:56
Ultimately consumers will have to believe they are safer and better served in the Interoperable DNS. This should likely be a strategic goal for 2026-31.
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
03:37:02
alternative roots are already forming their own governance organizations, (i.e. decentralized autonomous organizations). DAO's are even recognized as a new legal entity in some jurisdictions. You can expect to see some that address collisions within alternative roots themselves.
Farzaneh Badii
03:37:10
ICANN is here because we said collectively that that ICANN will coordinate the root zone globally. One day if we are upset we might move to somewhere else. the reasons could be that it doesn’t globally coordinate the Domain name allocation, or it doesn't do its mission or it's not multistakeholder.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
03:38:24
excellent chat and discussion today... needs to continue at a future point...
Leif Sawyer - Fellow
03:38:28
We need the translation back on the screen, please
Leif Sawyer - Fellow
03:38:46
*thank you!
Farzaneh Badii
03:39:16
fragmentation doesn't have anything to do with DNS abuse or crime.
Peter Madavhu
03:39:25
I agree with her
Shreedeep Rayamajhi
03:39:27
+1 anna
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
03:39:34
+1 Farzaneh
Eduardo .PT
03:39:53
+1 Farzaneh
James Bladel
03:40:53
+1 Farzaneh. The value of a unified DNS/Internet is too great. There are other more effective means to address online criminality and harms.
Alberto Soto
03:41:20
+1 Farzaneh
Ashirwad Tripathy- Chair, ISOC SIG IfE
03:41:54
+1 Farzaneh
Tomslin Samme-Nlar
03:42:05
@Farzaneh, she seems to suggest that one could take their network "off-Internet" to address crime. I agree it has nothing to do with fragmentation because it also suggests they may want to reconnect after the "crime" is resolved
Farzaneh Badii
03:42:07
longer, John (Michael)
David Charles Lawrence; Salesforce.com, Inc.
03:42:09
“not at this table" hahaha
Alberto Soto
03:42:13
I don't like the tower of Babel
Michael R.
03:42:56
@Farzaneh — Not directly, but to the extent types of fragmentation do provide additional and difficult-to-police means for DNS abuse and threats to end users and the security and trust in the Internet and DNS.
Eunice Pérez Coello
03:43:00
in mentí.. equality oportunities for all people
David Cake
03:43:03
+1 Farzaneh. Adding that resolvers that do some filtering of results are not fragmentation generally.
Eunice Pérez Coello
03:43:05
for all to us
Jeffrey Neuman
03:43:26
@ram it is more than meeting the expectation but IMPROVING that expereomce
Jeffrey Neuman
03:43:30
Experience
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
03:43:32
+1 Ram
Herb Waye Ombuds
03:43:35
Great informative, professional and respectful session. Thank you. Stay safe and be kind.
Jeffrey Neuman
03:43:39
And perhaps we are failing that
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
03:43:39
thanks 🙏🙏🙏 everyone
Jothan Frakes
03:43:48
great session
Jorge Cancio
03:43:49
thanks all!
Jeffrey Neuman
03:43:49
Are we really meeting the expectations
Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong
03:43:58
Thanks everyone one , great session
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
03:44:00
Excellent session.
Nigel Hickson GAC UK
03:44:03
Thanks indeed to all
David Charles Lawrence; Salesforce.com, Inc.
03:44:13
I never thought of that shirt as being ironic. It always rang true.
Jeffrey Neuman
03:44:13
Perhaps they are fragmenting because we are failing it improving their wxperience
Lavish Mawuena Mensah (ICANN75 Fellow)
03:44:15
The beauty of sharing diverse thoughts is wonderful!
Jeffrey Neuman
03:44:17
Experience
Lavish Mawuena Mensah (ICANN75 Fellow)
03:44:27
thanks to all...
Eunice Pérez Coello
03:44:32
equality oportunities for all people
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
03:44:34
@Jeff Or some fragmentation is really innovation?
Eunice Pérez Coello
03:44:39
thanks to all
Alberto Soto
03:44:42
Thanks, from Buenos Aires,! Bye bye!!
Jeffrey Neuman
03:45:01
@john who knows, but we are too slow at everything to even evaluate that
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
03:45:14
@Jeff True.
Oscar Giudice
03:45:26
Some comments from the panel give me the feeling that the clock is running backwards
Anne Aikman-Scalese
03:45:36
+1 James
Jeffrey Neuman
03:45:52
We have become so bureaucratic that it is nearly impossible to innovate
Alberto Soto
03:46:33
Here is 01:08 AM
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
03:46:42
@Jeff Saw it with the CCT and their approach to trying to measure Web Usage. The danger for ICANN is being behind the curve.
Shreedeep Rayamajhi
03:46:52
the Geo political issues create more problems for internet fragmentation to go the other way
Ashirwad Tripathy- Chair, ISOC SIG IfE
03:47:24
lucky to be from Asia this time, ICANN in other region are hard. Thank you ICANN for coming to asia,
Jeffrey Neuman
03:47:34
Having 12+ years between TLD rounds encourages those to work outside of our process
Paul Wilson
03:47:43
@David you're a realist for sure.
Alberto Soto
03:47:54
+1 Shereedeep
Thomas Barrett - EnCirca
03:48:33
@Jeff the delay between rounds is a red herring. blockchains need domains for different reasons that are not compatible with the icann framework.
John McCormac - HosterStats.com
03:48:35
@Jeff The Web keep changing and millions of domain names are deleted and millions more are registered each month. That's why it is difficult to tell fragmentation from innovation,
Abdeldjalil Bachar Bong
03:48:38
05:15 - 06:30 UTC(13:15 - 14:30 MYT) Wednesday, 21 September 2022 at Conference Hall 2(ALAC Room)Joint AFRALO-AfrICANN MeetingTopic: Universal Acceptance as a means of accessing the Internet in local languages.Zoom Link: https://icann.zoom.us/j/91392495886?pwd=MGhMeFBPb1NKQkxmSmpJd0pWMUZYUT09Thanks
Dave Kissoondoyal - ALAC
03:49:21
Great session. Thanks to all
Bertrand LOUVEAU
03:49:31
thanks