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051040011 GNSO Council - Shared screen with speaker view
Terri Agnew - ICANN Org
38:57
Welcome Stephanie
Stephanie Perrin
39:33
Apologies for being late!
Terri Agnew - ICANN Org
41:46
Please review ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior here: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/expected-standards-2016-06-28-en.
Kurt Pritz
44:23
I move we ban the acronym and just call it Continuous Improvement Pilot
Tatiana Tropina
46:23
Kurt if you submit the motion I might second it.
Terri Agnew - ICANN Org
51:26
Agenda wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/doL8CQ
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
53:02
Hand Up
Steve Chan - ICANN Org
57:18
The document Pam referenced is available here: https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/file/field-file-attach/registration-data-accuracy-scoping-team-formation-instructions-09jul21-en.pdf
Olga Cavalli - ISOC Argentina
01:00:00
I can second
Osvaldo Novoa
01:00:11
I can second
Olga Cavalli - ISOC Argentina
01:00:20
thanks
Marie Pattullo
01:02:12
My only comment is: thanks to all in the small team for the constructive work!
Kurt Pritz
01:09:53
I can’t raise my hand
Berry Cobb
01:10:39
Hand raised for Kurt.
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:11:08
What is the link to the mailing list?
Steve Chan - ICANN Org
01:11:31
Here: https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/council/2021-July/024863.html
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:12:01
lol....sorry, the mailing list between the SSAD Liaison and Org
Marika Konings
01:12:05
Or are you looking for this one: https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/odp-ssad/
Steve Chan - ICANN Org
01:12:29
C’mon Jeff, you need to be more specific :) Thanks Marika.
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:13:13
Thanks Marika :)
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:13:27
Steve - you need to step it up ;) Just kidding of course
Marie Pattullo
01:13:50
No - that's great - thanks!
Marie Pattullo
01:14:53
Who stole Kurt's hands? Give them back - that's mean.
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:16:00
Apologize for not attending the webinar last week (on vacation), but what is the timeline for completing the ODP?
Pam Little
01:17:41
Thanks Janis.
Berry Cobb
01:20:44
@Jeff in the Board's resolution, the ODP is expected to be delivered six months from the request. https://www.icann.org/resources/board-material/resolutions-2021-03-25-en#2.c
Mark Datysgeld
01:21:23
What is the expected chain of events after ODP is delivered?
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:21:54
thanks Berry. That was in April, so October? I figured it might be delayed a little given that it really didn't kick off until June, right?
Julie Hedlund - ICANN Org
01:22:05
Nothing to add for now but can if there are questions
Tatiana Tropina
01:22:07
Nothing from me
Kurt Pritz
01:22:44
@ Mark - I supposed there could be some sort of decision tree created that described different paths depending on the ODP outcome
Marika Konings
01:23:03
On slide 9 you can find a high level timeline: https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/presentation-ssad-odp-project-update-13jul21-en.pdf
Caitlin Tubergen - ICANN Org
01:23:11
@Mark - here is a link to the recording of the webinar: https://icann.zoom.us/rec/play/SZZNffTKwVkHnUbgqwESVi8u5DvKDnO4t2G1vKy0hAgQwU8V9JxkAAh246QNAVuljmWfN0cNJic6V9yg.qLM2_ndU-ihGrf_3?startTime=1626192046000&_x_zm_rtaid=789ehky4THi4As5p69H54g.1626369015597.8046a72e5d6b397f66ba756aee304f0d&_x_zm_rhtaid=386. The timeline, which includes expected steps up to delivery and after begins approximately 14 minutes into the webinar.
Mark Datysgeld
01:23:31
Thank you @Kurt and @Caitlin
Steve Chan - ICANN Org
01:25:10
@Mark, you can see the general framework for the ODP phase here: https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/odp-concept-paper-05mar21-en.pdf
Steve Chan - ICANN Org
01:25:46
There is a section on page 5 that talks about what happens after the Operational Design Assessment is delivered to the Board.
Mark Datysgeld
01:26:33
Thanks @Steve. This process got a little confusing to me at this point, so it's good to catch up.
Kurt Pritz
01:28:34
Marie: is the org you are describing WIPO?
Kurt Pritz
01:28:43
nevermind
Pam Little
01:29:42
WIPO is only one of the many UDRP providers.
Julie Hedlund - ICANN Org
01:29:46
That’s correct Philippe
Julie Hedlund - ICANN Org
01:29:58
GDS would reach out to all of the providers, not just WIPO
Marie Pattullo
01:31:30
Absolutely. but they can reach out to the other providers from a basis of common expertise, no? Their annual jurisdictional review is pretty much the gold standard on stats/facts here.
Julie Hedlund - ICANN Org
01:32:17
+1 Marie
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:33:13
@Marie - there is some debate for that Marie as to the Gold Standard.
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:33:40
Definitely needs to be narrow issues.
Kurt Pritz
01:34:32
Hand up
Marie Pattullo
01:34:57
I think they know an awful lot more about the UDRP than GDD, Jeff. If we're going to have a PSR (which I agree with) isn't it better to ask the providers themselves to take the lead for the data? Efficiency, surely?
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:35:02
I believe the Providers, Panelists, frequent filers and frequent defenderss
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:35:27
I worry that the providers may have conflicts here to take charge
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:35:42
I would rather see this headed up by a non-provider
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:35:47
seems eminently sensible from my understanding of what any At-Large View would be as well
Flip Petillion
01:36:15
@Kurt: +1
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:37:18
Personal View - The issues are NOT in the objective data at all
Marie Pattullo
01:37:24
Jeff - WIPO has the data, and for such a study I'm absolutely sure they'd include the views of frequent filers etc. This isn't about opinion - this is about stats & fact gathering.
Tatiana Tropina
01:37:27
We cannot let the potentially non-neutral parties lead on this. Collection of data is different of course
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:37:54
But the data the Providers have is NOT the only data we need
Tatiana Tropina
01:38:00
Marie, but if they have the data why not just get it from them? Why should they lead in effort?
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:38:46
WIPO can tell us the hard stats. But they cant tell you for example that some panelists look at registration dates to determine bad faith while others look at the renewal dates as well and that is an issue that may need resolving
Marie Pattullo
01:39:04
Jeff, that's policy. That's for the PDP.
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:39:07
that is not data you can get necessarily from WIPO or the FORUM or any other provider
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:39:26
But the Charter needs to include these issues to make sure they are in scope
John McElwaine
01:39:30
I think the issue is that we don't what Data is going to be requested. The providers will know.
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:39:59
I guess I am confused then for the purpose of the data.
Tatiana Tropina
01:41:25
I don’t think WIPO is in a capacity to prepare a PSR for ICANN. I mean, neither procedurally nor in any case. Provide the data, yes.
Tatiana Tropina
01:41:49
And neither they are in a position IMO.
Tatiana Tropina
01:41:58
(If I am getting Marie’s point right)
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:41:59
WIPO wrote this with the help of a bunch of community members as well
Berry Cobb
01:42:04
I will note that for Phase1 for URS Review, Sunrise, and Claims, there was data provided from Staff. It was presented in the early years of the PDP. But it quickly became stale as the years ran on.
Tatiana Tropina
01:42:28
Marie, I am still a bit lost because I am still not sure if you say that PSR should be shaped by GDS or WIPO
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:42:29
@Berry - but was the data really used by the Working Group?
Tatiana Tropina
01:42:39
Or GDS with the data from WIPO
Berry Cobb
01:43:09
It was there, I presented it. We (staff) never got requests for more.
Marie Pattullo
01:43:21
Sorry - acronym fail, Apologies.
Tomslin Samme-Nlar
01:43:27
I absolutely agree @Tatiana. The PSR should be done by GDS and WIPO and others provide the data
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:43:34
I just don't believe that updated data at this point will lead to an understanding of what the issues are from a Complainant's perspective, a Respondent's perspective, a Panelist's perspective and the Providers' perspective
Chris Disspain
01:51:04
:-)
John McElwaine
01:51:12
Nothing to add
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:52:39
Poor Orphan IGO
Chris Disspain
01:53:08
Sir, may I have some more please :-)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:53:35
:-)
Chris Disspain
01:55:22
nothing to add
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:55:41
If you are asking why is this important: It is because the work of the IGO WG is likely to lead to changes to a "Consensus Policy". But Contracted Parties are only required to implement Consensus Policies if they were done in accordance with the Bylaws (which means it has to be through a PDP or ePDP). If it just stayed as a Work Track, Consensus Policies could not be an outcome.
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:56:03
+1 to John
Flip Petillion
01:56:44
+1 to John
Philippe Fouquart
01:56:44
hand up
Carlton SAMUELS
01:56:50
I have to drop off here. A urgent matter requiring my attention. My apologies.
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
01:59:44
there is nothing prohibiting breaking out a work track into a separate PDP/ePDP regardless of whether it was initially part of a live or dead PDP
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:00:23
This would be a different voting threshold than the original amended charter
Chris Disspain
02:00:58
As a student of quantum mechanics I am excited by the possibilities of chatting a schroedinger’s cat
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:01:04
so you initiate a new ePDP and move the work track from the RPM PDP to its own ePDP
Chris Disspain
02:01:13
*chairing
Tatiana Tropina
02:02:08
Chris, I couldn’t even say the word properly and I am German so I should know how to say it!
Chris Disspain
02:02:21
:-)
Marie Pattullo
02:03:11
Is the orphan still hungry if he has gruel in a box?
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:03:37
Yes, @Marie, unless its name is Oliver Twist, who apparently loves gruel too much
Chris Disspain
02:03:50
as long as it is in a bowl within the box then fine but no way will I eat directly from the box
Kurt Pritz
02:05:39
Among the choices: are there any differences in requiring the working group to adhere to the conclusions of already concluded recommendation (1-4)?
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:06:05
There may be @Kurt....stay tuned :)
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:06:57
I just wanted to provide some helpful background. Marika may remember more about this than I do as Marika was staff support for PDP 2.0.
Marika Konings
02:07:38
Thanks for putting me on the spot, Jeffrey ;-)
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:08:24
Anytime @Marika. Hard to believe that was over 10 years ago......
Marika Konings
02:10:05
As you noted, the changes made were mainly focused on ensuring the necessary flexibility, while at the same time ensuring the robustness of the process and assuring that the minimum requirements would be met.
Chris Disspain
02:11:58
no rush Tatiana
Kurt Pritz
02:14:59
Hand up
Chris Disspain
02:15:06
:-)
Chris Disspain
02:20:06
John, not off script at all… 100% on point
Kurt Pritz
02:20:51
Agree with John McE
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:21:16
I am an observer to the group and I would strongly encourage perhaps another session on this. Once we discuss these issues more thoroughly you will see that that initial recommendations did not necessarily make the most sense. And its ok for us to admit we were wrong initially.
Chris Disspain
02:22:20
:-)
Chris Disspain
02:23:52
happy to discuss further and thanks for listening
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:29:05
Just a reminder for AOB (Not this subject) is a response to the GAC asks of the Board where GNSO Is impacted.
Jeffrey Neuman (GNSO Liaison to GAC)
02:36:07
Yes, sorry for extending the meeting. But I know there will be questions from the GAC Point of Contact on these items
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:36:24
Bye for now everyone... From a place in its almost 4th week of to continue lockdown re Delta strain, please all, stay safe and make SMART choices...
Olga Cavalli - ISOC Argentina
02:36:41
Many thanks to all. bye!!
Mark Datysgeld
02:36:47
bye all
John McElwaine
02:36:50
Bye all