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ICANN Meeting 69 - GNSO Council Meeting - Part 1 - Shared screen with speaker view
Emily Barabas ICANN Org
01:03:54
Hello, my name is Emily Barabas and I am the Remote Participation Manager for this session.For this session, we are using a Zoom webinar room. All councilors have been promoted to panelists and can activate microphones and participate in the chat as they can in other Council meetings. Councilors, please remember to set your chat to “All Panelists and Attendees” in order to ensure that everyone can read the exchanges.Observers are welcome during this session. For most of the session, observers will not have access to their microphones nor to the chat option. There will be an open mic period at the end of agenda. During the open mic, chat will be activated and all will be welcome to raise their hands to be placed in the queue to speak.As a reminder, those who take part in the ICANN multi-stakeholder process are to comply with the Expected Standards of Behavior: http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/expected-standards
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:04:04
Well if you were buying a load of bandwidth or something ..
Terri Agnew (ICANN.Org)
01:04:07
This session also includes real time transcription. By clicking on the “closed caption” button in the Zoom toolbar you can view the real time transcription.
Carlton Samuels
01:04:07
Good morning from Kingston all
James Gannon
01:04:38
Well hook me up with a 10gb link and we can talk =)
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:04:59
Well I could but would you pay for it?
James Gannon
01:05:45
Well the last one I had in Basel cost me 50chf per month can u match that =)
Rafik Dammak
01:05:49
hi all
Maxim Alzoba
01:06:37
Nathalie, please post URL of the agenda to the chat
Emily Barabas ICANN Org
01:06:51
Maxim, here you go: https://community.icann.org/display/gnsocouncilmeetings/Final+Proposed+Agenda+21+October+2020+-+Part+1
Terri Agnew (ICANN.Org)
01:06:56
https://community.icann.org/x/NgebC
Maxim Alzoba
01:06:59
thanks
Pam Little
01:07:38
Congrats James
Rafik Dammak
01:07:52
congrats James
Philippe Fouquart
01:07:53
congratulations James
Emily Barabas ICANN Org
01:08:06
Repeating a few housekeeping items for those just joining us. . .For this session, we are using a Zoom webinar room. All councilors have been promoted to panelists and can activate microphones and participate in the chat as they can in other Council meetings. Councilors, please remember to set your chat to “All Panelists and Attendees” in order to ensure that everyone can read the exchanges.Observers are welcome during this session. For most of the session, observers will not have access to their microphones nor to the chat option. There will be an open mic period at the end of agenda. During the open mic, chat will be activated and all will be welcome to raise their hands to be placed in the queue to speak.As a reminder, those who take part in the ICANN multi-stakeholder process are to comply with the Expected Standards of Behavior: http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/expected-standards
Rafik Dammak
01:08:09
council will need to replace him to CSC ?
Carlton Samuels
01:08:14
Congrats James!
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:08:18
GENERAL meeting
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:08:23
they’re always global
Emily Barabas ICANN Org
01:09:08
Repeating a few housekeeping items for those just joining us. . .For this session, we are using a Zoom webinar room. All councilors have been promoted to panelists and can activate microphones and participate in the chat as they can in other Council meetings. Councilors, please remember to set your chat to “All Panelists and Attendees” in order to ensure that everyone can read the exchanges.Observers are welcome during this session. For most of the session, observers will not have access to their microphones nor to the chat option. There will be an open mic period at the end of agenda. During the open mic, chat will be activated and all will be welcome to raise their hands to be placed in the queue to speak.As a reminder, those who take part in the ICANN multi-stakeholder process are to comply with the Expected Standards of Behavior: http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/expected-standards
James Gannon
01:09:46
Yes I need to be replaced on the CSC, I informed Keith last week. And thanks all!
Nathalie Peregrine ICANN Org
01:12:32
Councilors, please remember to set your chat to “All Panelists and Attendees” in order to ensure that everyone can read the exchanges
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:14:02
GENERAL meeting
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:14:15
Not GLOBAL
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
01:15:15
Right, thanks Michele. 4am here.
Maxim Alzoba
01:16:46
from dusk till dawn
Maxim Alzoba
01:18:25
@Berry , how many simultaneous active policy processes (including chartering of PDPs) do we envision in JAN 2021?
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:34:29
Most of the text is the background and details of what happened
Nathalie Peregrine ICANN Org
01:35:17
Link to the draft motion: https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/file/field-file-attach/draft-motion-16oct20-en.pdf
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
01:35:57
As a reminder, the GNSO Council received a letter from the ICANN Board on this topic, so a substantive response is needed, in addition to initiating the follow-on policy work called for in the Rec 27 and Wave 1 report.
Maxim Alzoba
01:37:05
the relevant letter about Rec 7 from RySG letter rec 7 RySG EPDP teamhttps://mm.icann.org/pipermail/council/2020-October/024146.html
Maxim Alzoba
01:38:20
it is an opinion, only law decides what the legal basis and what is not
Marie Pattullo
01:40:06
But Maxim, Bird & Bird did say that a legal basis does exist.
Maxim Alzoba
01:41:28
It should not be reduced to this shot version
Maxim Alzoba
01:41:37
short
Marie Pattullo
01:41:37
And registries allocate domain names to registrants, so a 6.1.b legal basis always exists.
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:42:03
Registries DO NOT need registrant data for them to work
Maxim Alzoba
01:42:07
we should not conflate law and contract
Maxim Alzoba
01:42:19
can be is not equal to is
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:42:28
All of .com and .net works fine without Verisign having any of the data
Maxim Alzoba
01:42:59
if the policy is in breach of the law - it is void
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:43:25
if the policy isn’t in breach of the law then what is the problem with reviewing it and confirming that?
Elsa Saade
01:44:19
Totally agree with Pam! Totally.
Maxim Alzoba
01:44:47
optional is may, not must
Marie Pattullo
01:45:22
But Michele, registries do need registrant data to be able to allocate domain names to a registrant...
Maxim Alzoba
01:45:46
registration is not allocation - it is just adding info to the registry database
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:45:49
Verisign has been working fine for years without that
Maxim Alzoba
01:46:42
registries usually do not have direct relations or processes involving the registrant
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:47:27
*some* do, but it’s the “blanket” assumption that there’s a legal basis that is the problem
Marie Pattullo
01:47:38
We can have a PDP on updates to Thick WHOIS, but that shouldn't mean we have a backdoor repeal of a consensus policy via the IRT.
Marie Pattullo
01:48:47
If we include the Rec 7 language in the IRT OneDoc, we have changed the TW consensus policy. The IRT can't do that (inter alia, as per the Board).
Maxim Alzoba
01:49:44
policies, which do not take into account some laws - do not have precedence over those laws
Maxim Alzoba
01:51:13
to say more, as a US entity , ICANN can not force third parties to violate laws
Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC Liaison to GNSO COuncil
01:57:13
`Thank you for noting that input from ALAC @PAm
Elsa Saade
01:57:39
absolutely.. if we are not committed to our role, we better not be here in the first place.
Elsa Saade
01:59:18
We’re totally out of order, when we are still resisting an adopted recommendation list after months of discussions of substance at the EPDP as well as policy management discussions at the GNSO Council level.
Rafik Dammak
02:01:26
+1 Pam
Maxim Alzoba
02:02:55
+1 Pam
Mary Wong ICANN Org
02:12:26
@Tatiana, as the paper makes clear, the proposal is not intended to supplant the GNSO’s or the Council’s role in substantive policy making. The paper does provide a perspective that reflects ICANN org’s experience in implementing policies after their approval by the Council and adoption by the Board, with the objectives as stated in the paper. We do appreciate your comments and look forward to further engagement on the topic, so that we can clarify any questions and provide more information as may be needed.
Maxim Alzoba
02:13:08
if some additional public comments are added to it - it is a replacement of the Multistakeholder process with something else
Carlton Samuels
02:13:25
I get the feeling that this design operational phase if not sculpted and rigorously managed provides an opening for "re-litigation" of an issue, giving aggrieved parties another bite of the bile as it were.
Pam Little
02:13:43
+ 1 re small team
Tatiana Tropina
02:15:07
@Mary thank you. I hope the comments from stakeholder groups and the GNSO and others will help to shape both the document and the strategy for the design phase.
Mary Wong ICANN Org
02:19:02
@Tatiana, ABSOLUTELY. Please continue to reach out, I will be happy to make sure the community’s questions and concerns are not just passed on, but also timely engagement both ways. I think we all want to ensure that anything that may move forward makes sense and reflects stakeholders’ input.
Tom Dale
02:20:29
+1 Michele
James Gannon
02:20:46
+100 Marie
Maxim Alzoba
02:20:59
the current saleforce based system is really slow and the performance is not good (CZDS as an example)
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
02:22:04
Can we please pull up the transmittal letter on the screen?
Maxim Alzoba
02:22:08
even creation of different accounts for different logins with the proper logging is still an issue there
Emily Barabas ICANN Org
02:23:12
Transmittal letter: https://gnso.icann.org/sites/default/files/file/field-file-attach/draft-transmittal-letter-icann-board-08oct20-en.pdf
James Gannon
02:24:25
Salesforce as a platform is more than capable
James Gannon
02:24:34
Depends on how its managed and configured
Marie Pattullo
02:24:34
Other techs/solutions are available of course - the idea is building on what we already have/use rather than reinventing the wheel,
Maxim Alzoba
02:25:12
the way it is configured - not a good idea
Maxim Alzoba
02:26:18
@Marie, if you take a system not designed or configurable for the particular task is used - there are consequences (not proper work at the best)
Philippe Fouquart
02:26:38
Something we also discus swithin the ISPCP: I undertsand from our exchnages w/ the board that it's very early but just on the nature of the cost/benefit exercise itself: spending xM$ on something isn't necesarily a problem when you can properly assess that "user's demand" for this is (or the relevance of the machinery). This may not be a trivial task.
Philippe Fouquart
02:26:45
/discussed
Philippe Fouquart
02:27:26
this being the "meeting the user's demand" part
James Gannon
02:31:38
If its not broke don't fix it
Philippe Fouquart
02:31:49
°1
Philippe Fouquart
02:31:52
+1
Emily Barabas ICANN Org
02:33:18
We are now moving to the open mic portion of the agenda. At this time, all are welcome to raise hands to be placed in the queue to speak. At this time, you can also enter a question or comment in the chat to be read out load. When submitting a question or comment that you want me to read out loud,  please start with a <QUESTION> and end with a </QUESTION> or <COMMENT> </COMMENT>. Text outside these quotes will be considered as part of “chat” and will not be read out loud on the microphone.
Carlton Samuels
02:33:18
Question. Isn't there a formal policy status review framework established? Like an established frequency for the review and the elements of that review? These days it is considered best practice to formally review law and regulation to see if the intent was addressed!
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
02:33:33
Is Keith’s audio breaking up for others?
Rafik Dammak
02:34:04
@carlton I guess it should be CPIF
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
02:34:18
Was my audio cutting out?
John McElwaine
02:34:31
sounded fine to me
Philippe Fouquart
02:34:38
it was ok
Julie Bisland (ICANN.Org)
02:34:44
Audio was fine on my end, not cutting out
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
02:34:48
Thanks John and Philippe
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
02:34:52
...and Julie
Maxim Alzoba
02:35:27
it is called RFPs usually
Jeffrey Neuman
02:36:50
I would have loved to use video, but that wasn't enabled :)
Jeffrey Neuman
02:36:55
Yep agree with Guardrails
Jeffrey Neuman
02:37:11
But it seems that too many groups were viewing this as a negative as opposed to positive
Philippe Fouquart
02:37:23
this was also seen as positive with the ISPCP re. transparency - just a few words of caution regarding elements of risks
Wolf-Ulrich Knoben
02:37:29
I agree to Jeff. Key Questions are whether the ODP would Need more time and personal ressources
Amr Elsadr (UNR)
02:38:35
As part of the implementation process a legal review of law applicable to the transition of data from a thin to thick model that has not already been considered in the EWG memo2 is undertaken and due consideration is given to potential privacy issues that may arise from the discussions on the transition from thin to thick Whois, including, for example, guidance on how the long-standing contractual requirement that registrars give notice to, and obtain consent, from each registrant for uses of any personally identifiable data submitted by the registrant should apply to registrations involved in the
transition. Should any privacy issues emerge from these transition discussions that were not anticipated by the WG and which would require additional policy consideration, the Implementation Review Team is expected to notify the GNSO Council of these so that appropriate action can be taken.
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
02:38:42
@Jeff, I think folks are approaching it with caution, not necessarily as a negative.
Mary Wong ICANN Org
02:39:30
Wolf-Ulrich, if it helps, one point that came out of the initial conversation about the ODP at the pre-ICANN69 SOAC Chairs Roundtable with Goran and Maarten (held virtually these days), was that expending the effort, time and resources up front, prior to Board vote, could conceivably save time and resources down the road.
Amr Elsadr (UNR)
02:40:36
Of course. Thanks, Keith.
Brian King (MarkMonitor)
02:40:44
Thanks Amr for the excellent insight.
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
02:40:54
Alex Deacon is next.....
Jeffrey Neuman
02:40:54
Actually Mary - it came from an earlier conversation with SubPro Leadership and ICANN Execs
Jeffrey Neuman
02:41:03
:)
Amr Elsadr (UNR)
02:41:26
Thanks, Brian.
Mary Wong ICANN Org
02:41:27
@Jeff, it did so there too, yes. Apologies - just trying to cast as wide a net as possible!
Jeffrey Neuman
02:41:35
@Rafik - I am just asking that we all view this from a positive perspective as opposed to from a view point of a power grab
Jeffrey Neuman
02:41:55
I am encouraging a positive attitude :)
Herb Waye (ICANN.Org)
02:42:01
Thanks for unlocking the chat. Greetings from the Office of the Ombudsman. The Ombuds team is hosting a virtual drop-in office for ICANN69. Details are posted in the “Conversation” forum on the meeting home page. Stay safe and be kind.
Terri Agnew (ICANN.Org)
02:42:03
Please remember to set your chat to All Panelists and Attendees for all to be able read the exchanges.
Jeffrey Neuman
02:42:23
@Rafik - I am just asking that we all view this from a positive perspective as opposed to from a view point of a power grabI am encouraging a positive attitude :)
Maxim Alzoba
02:43:52
logical is more important than positive
Maxim Alzoba
02:44:39
legal items are always procedural
Maxim Alzoba
02:45:35
we have few conflicted opinions also
Rubens Kuhl
02:46:29
Board did nothing of sorts. This is just putting the point one wants to convince people of as a given.
Jeffrey Neuman
02:47:30
Logical is trusting that the intent of the document is not to supersede the policy process. An open mind to listen to Goran's intent and yes, to develop appropriate guardrails and also to understand what our limits are. This is a time where we complain there is too much on our plates and we complain that there is not enough transparency. Goran is offering an opening up of a process that ICANN Org has a fiduciary obligation to do anyway. If we look at it with this open mind, and less from a fear of the GNDO being undermined, I think we will be in a better position to offer positive constructive feedback
Alex Deacon
02:47:42
@pam - i understand, but i’m simply pointing out the comments from the board. nothing more than that.
Pam Little
02:49:43
@Alex - I feel the Board’s reasoning is a bit circular.
Terri Agnew (ICANN.Org)
02:50:37
This chat will be locked once again at the end of the open Mic, for the Farewell to Outgoing Councilors, thank you for your input!
Jeffrey Neuman
02:50:39
Nope, lets let the exiting councilors enjoy their farewell :)
Pam Little
02:52:56
+1 re staff support and thank you all!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC Liaison to GNSO COuncil
02:53:10
Wonderful Team!
Steve Chan ICANN Org
02:54:24
Thanks for the kind words Keith and the feeling is certainly mutual! It’s been a real pleasure working with you (and Rafik, and the other departing Councilors).
Scott McCormick
02:57:31
I’m outgoing as well, Mark Datysgeld will be taking my seat
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
02:57:58
well you got overlooked
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
02:58:02
so you’re stuck now
Nathalie Peregrine ICANN Org
02:58:49
There’s Scott :)
Maxim Alzoba
03:00:56
Thanks to all leaving Councillors and to Julf, see you online somewhere !
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
03:01:49
I look forward to seeing you all in person again soon, so we can catch up on our missed meals, drink and song!
James Gannon
03:01:56
Yes me too!
Osvaldo Novoa
03:02:18
Thank you to all the leaving Councillors and in particular to Keith, Pam and Rafik, hope to see you in person in the near future.
Marie Pattullo
03:02:25
Drinks on you in the bar after this, Keith? ;-)
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
03:02:58
Thanks John!
Maxim Alzoba
03:02:59
I ta was great to see you in F2F
Rafik Dammak
03:03:37
@john I am in council parole for some time :)
Tatiana Tropina
03:03:38
I don’t want to take the queue but I want so say that in 2017 when I was elected on the council — there were three people who told me that I have nothing to be scared of. It was Rafik, and Michele and Keith (I had my first council meeting in the same room with them as we were together at the IG event in Stockholm). I learnt so much from those three, but also from any of your, outgoing guys. So grateful for the friendship, help and even disagreements. Thank you.
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
03:04:40
Thanks Philippe, I agree it's been a challenging year and I miss the personal contact too!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC Liaison to GNSO COuncil
03:04:45
:-)
Pam Little
03:05:09
WHOIS + Pandemic !!!
Julf Helsingius
03:06:05
No way I could follow that
Tatiana Tropina
03:07:00
Elsa <3
James Gannon
03:07:12
The proxies were a pleasure =)
Rafik Dammak
03:07:39
James as nginx
Pam Little
03:08:14
Good to know you are not going far, James
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
03:09:29
I forgot to mention that we’ll miss Keith’s signing on buses late at night
Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC Liaison to GNSO COuncil
03:09:39
Thanks to all the outgoing Councillors it has been a pleasure serving with you.
Steve Chan ICANN Org
03:09:58
@Michele, very important point!
Nathalie Peregrine ICANN Org
03:09:59
@michele, you mean “singing”, right? Keith doesn’t do graffiti :)
Maxim Alzoba
03:10:04
Councillor’s Jan meetings were great
Tom Dale
03:10:29
Yes, Keith does a great Johnny Cash.
Maxim Alzoba
03:10:42
bye all
Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC Liaison to GNSO COuncil
03:10:43
indeed he does!
Elsa Saade
03:10:45
Thank you all!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr ALAC Liaison to GNSO COuncil
03:10:46
Bye
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
03:10:47
bye all
Carlton Samuels
03:10:56
Bye all