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051040011 GNSO Council
Farell Folly
43:12
Hello all…
Maxim Alzoba
43:17
Hello all
Philippe Fouquart
43:52
Apologies not sure you heard my "I'm here".... :)
Philippe Fouquart
43:59
Hi everyone
Osvaldo Novoa
43:59
Hello all, took me to get connected.
Farell Folly
44:04
I have a very limited connection, therefore, please bear with me if it drops me from time to time.
James Gannon (NCSG)
45:25
Hi All Welcome to the Council meeting
Nathalie Peregrine
45:40
Please review ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior here: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/expected-standards-2016-06-28-en.
Nathalie Peregrine
46:23
Please review ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior here: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/expected-standards-2016-06-28-en.
Sebastien Ducos
47:18
My apologies. I missed the roll call, but I am here.
Nathalie Peregrine
47:32
Noted for attendance Phlippe and Sebastien
Nathalie Peregrine
48:03
Please remember to set your chat drop down to ALL PANELISTS AND ATTENDEES to allow all to follow the chat content.
Philippe Fouquart
48:11
Thanks Nathalie.
Sebastien Ducos
50:23
Thank you Nathalie
Sebastien Ducos
50:43
I confirm
Nathalie Peregrine
53:03
And attendance noted for Osvaldo Novao too
James Gannon (NCSG)
01:00:45
Did we ever do anything with the capacity analysis that was done a while ago I think by you Berry? (I may be reaching back into history with that though)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:01:46
However some things like our SubPro PDP are seeing the end of project
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:01:49
as well
Maxim Alzoba
01:02:51
new hand
Keith Drazek (Verisign)
01:03:11
Ok Maxim
Berry Cobb
01:03:29
@James - the prototype I had for SPS, was just that. I'm starting to explore how we can accomplish that with the PMT, but the tool presents different challenges.
James Gannon (NCSG)
01:04:07
Got it
James Gannon (NCSG)
01:04:09
thanks!
Berry Cobb
01:04:54
I'd note that the ADR does help to prioritize because there are some up coming decision on how to handle upcoming work. Like PolicyImp Review or EDDP/ERRP. We'll be looking for formal decision on when to address them. The key is to look at the ADR into the 3-6 month range.
James Gannon (NCSG)
01:07:23
We could also investigate something like TShirt Sizing incoming work so that even without detailed community capacity analysis we have a rough feel for what is ongoing vs incoming
Juan Manuel Rojas
01:07:31
How we can prioritize efficiently? Do we have any rank beyond Effort level?
Berry Cobb
01:08:08
@James the last column is a first attempt at those t-shirt sizes. Work in Progress.
Rafik
01:08:09
@james and story points too :)?
James Gannon (NCSG)
01:08:34
Well.. if it works it works =)
James Gannon (NCSG)
01:09:15
And yes seeing that now Berry thanks
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:09:36
as long as it is **Properly** sized of course
James Gannon (NCSG)
01:10:12
Yeah that's the nice thing about tshirt sizes they just have to be rough instead of tailored =)
Maxim Alzoba
01:10:18
old
James Gannon (NCSG)
01:10:35
Nothing Im aware of
Tom Dale
01:10:45
Not that I know of.
Tatiana Tropina
01:10:54
Not really. Not sure these conversations would have taken place without you, Keith, if you are in the group
Philippe Fouquart
01:11:17
@Berry: I sort of interpreted the last column of the radar was somewhat a reflection of the poll on priorities from the Cs we did early this year - was I mistaken?
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:11:45
I did I did
Berry Cobb
01:12:14
@Phillipe - No sir. Just my quick thumb in the wind guesstimate....no science behind it for now.
Ariel Liang
01:12:41
15 September 2020 - information will be sent shortly
Nathalie Peregrine
01:12:56
Thanks Ariel!
Philippe Fouquart
01:13:32
@Berry thnks there we are - so basically that piece of work is still "hanging in the air" then
Philippe Fouquart
01:13:47
I thought it got fed into that somehow
Philippe Fouquart
01:14:14
-thanks Berry
Caitlin Tubergen
01:17:21
Hand raised
John McElwaine
01:18:41
It now makes sense
John McElwaine
01:18:42
Yes
James Gannon (NCSG)
01:23:10
How many minority statements in total?
Marika Konings
01:24:18
5 so far - 2 more expected
James Gannon (NCSG)
01:24:27
Thanks Marika
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:26:03
And minority statements DO NOT mean dissenting statements
Pam Little, RrSG
01:26:04
@James, Not sure if they should be all be categorised as “minority” statements though.
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:26:31
maybe just statements?
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:26:43
because minority to me sounds like dissent
James Gannon (NCSG)
01:26:55
Ok got it =)
Osvaldo Novoa
01:28:05
I always thought that if you submit a minority statement regarding a report it was because you had some dissent with its content.
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:29:11
Osvaldo - exactly
Marika Konings
01:29:32
Officially it is a minority view which is defined in the PDP Manual as: “Minority View - refers to a proposal where a small number of people support the recommendation.” But over the years it seems to have taken on a different meaning and there are no specific guidelines on what it can or cannot include. Maybe something to look at for PDP 4.0 ;-)
Maxim Alzoba
01:29:57
we are loosing Rafik
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:29:59
ok so not just me then Keith
Maxim Alzoba
01:30:07
last couple of minutes
Flip Petillion
01:30:17
indeed
Flip Petillion
01:30:42
Last minute
Flip Petillion
01:30:44
Ok now
Philippe Fouquart
01:36:36
So "consider" here means for council to vote separately on those two sets
Philippe Fouquart
01:36:39
?
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:36:41
yes
Philippe Fouquart
01:36:44
Apologies I'm slow....
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:36:51
No comment
Philippe Fouquart
01:36:56
:)
Michele Neylon (Blacknight)
01:36:59
I’ve been drinking a lot of coffee
Philippe Fouquart
01:37:09
I haven't
Marika Konings
01:37:11
@Philippe - it may just mean voting on individual resolved clauses or having separate motions - we are still figuring that one out. Both approaches seem viable.
Philippe Fouquart
01:37:13
thanks Michele
Maxim Alzoba
01:37:36
only one ☕
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:37:45
3 weeks now of remote meetings!!
James Gannon (NCSG)
01:37:51
Two motions seems cleaner just from my 2c
Tatiana Tropina
01:37:57
No coffee. It’s 1 am … :(
Philippe Fouquart
01:38:04
(Thanks Marika)
Maxim Alzoba
01:38:10
3 weeks of ICANN meeting is too much for normal people :)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:38:32
I hear you @Maxim!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
01:39:24
It has been a mammoth task indeed!
Marika Konings
01:39:37
Please note that the date for the webinar is 3 September (not 4 as it says on this slide) - apologies for any confusion!
Marie Pattullo
01:40:22
@Marika - I thought that your "minority view" quote above (3.6 operating procedures?) was about consensus designation of the WG, so not about these minority statements as submitted?
Marika Konings
01:40:32
You should already have a calendar invite in your inbox.
Marika Konings
01:41:40
@Marie - yes, it is linked to that. It also says: “Documentation of Minority View recommendations normally depends on text offered by the proponent(s).” This is what has become what we now refer to as minority statements (I believe).
James Gannon (NCSG)
01:42:16
Yes kudos to Rafik
Marika Konings
01:42:24
As described in the PDP Manual, these are supposed to focus on alternative proposals / recommendations that only got minority support, but it has become much broader over the years.
Tatiana Tropina
01:43:14
Yes awesome Rafik :) thanks Pam for bringing this
Philippe Fouquart
01:43:15
+1 to what Pam just said
Pam Little, RrSG
01:43:22
https://www.icann.org/news/blog/epdp-phase-2-team-publishes-final-report
Flip Petillion
01:43:51
+1 Rafik
Marie Pattullo
01:45:44
Yes I agree Rafik - and I still think that "minority view recs" aren't what we're dealing with here.
Maxim Alzoba
01:46:00
at least now
Marie Pattullo
01:47:01
And of course kudos to the entire Team/Staff for the hours/months/years of blood, sweat & tears.
Steve Chan
01:53:28
Proposal on screen here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FMSpEJHWdnNhEtnY7O7mRIHunAyx6tRR/edit
Maxim Alzoba
01:53:44
why do we expect the same people to have different outcome this time?
Marika Konings
01:54:23
@Maxim - note that the legal/natural study came in after the EPDP Team finalized its report so it has not been reviewed by the EPDP Team.
James Gannon (NCSG)
01:55:06
Who will Chair?
Maxim Alzoba
01:55:44
accuracy - Bird and Bird sent it on 9th APR 2020 , it is few months ago
Marika Konings
01:56:37
As the Council already directed the EPDP Team not to further consider accuracy, it did not consider the B & B response but it is expected to feed into the scoping effort.
Maxim Alzoba
01:59:04
There is no reason to expect the same pace, deadlock situation has no momentum to support
Marika Konings
01:59:14
The proposal does foresee reconfirming membership and allowing for updates / changes, as appropriate.
Marie Pattullo
01:59:39
That's why we said there could be changes James; I know that many members do want to continue, given their expertise & the momentum.
John McElwaine
02:00:16
The proposal contemplates replacement of members (if they are burned out).
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:00:34
A little respite over the upcoming "Meeting Season" might be important to consider in any planning for those that choose to continue as well
Marie Pattullo
02:01:58
Then how far does this urgent work get pushed out, Cheryl? We have the momentum/expertise that we risk losing.
Marie Pattullo
02:02:34
Sorry!
Maxim Alzoba
02:02:40
there is no momentum in stale situation
Marie Pattullo
02:03:32
But there are 2 track here - the remaining phase 2 items are one thing; accuracy is another, and not linked (now) to the EPDP.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:03:53
@MAria I did not indicate not starting as you plan but rather over the meeting weeks there may need to be a respite focussed work plan
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:03:56
I assume that we will need to vote on the next steps in the September meeting correct?
Marie Pattullo
02:04:36
Why can't we set up the call for volunteers for the scoping team on accuracy? That doesn't have to be the same people even.
Tatiana Tropina
02:04:57
Accuracy no problem, as it’s something different
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:05:00
Totally agree @Maria get onto the work ASAP
Tatiana Tropina
02:05:09
Re-starting EPDP — no.
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:05:24
Yes Accuracy goes into our normal pipeline
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:05:38
sorry my damn auto correct is an issue this morning @Marie
Tatiana Tropina
02:05:43
If we start accuracy now, I don’t have a problem with this
Tatiana Tropina
02:05:59
Michele :-)
Marie Pattullo
02:08:03
Accuracy keeps being pushed back, James. So I don't agree that it would be a "normal" (read, months from now) start.
Maxim Alzoba
02:09:53
Is there a new text from B&B about accuracy? pushed by whom?
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:13:18
If the timing is removed from the proposal then the framework takes a different form
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:13:34
(And would garner more support)
Marie Pattullo
02:14:08
Accuracy is in the GDPR, Maxim, and the European Commission itself disagrees with the chosen route of the EPDP Team, as you know. This isn't about Bird & Bird, and as accuracy was taken out of the EPDP to be dealt with holistically, then let's do that.
Marie Pattullo
02:14:49
Think you know the BC's opinion, Keith ;-).
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:16:03
I need a GDPR Accuracy =/ ICANN Accuracy Tshirt =)
Marie Pattullo
02:16:22
What size? ;-)
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:16:33
Secrets!
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:16:41
Send me a DSAR
Tatiana Tropina
02:16:57
In the GDPR accuracy is the right of data subject, and that’s what B&B said, and I read the GDPR many times and frankly I haven’t seen anything else than that there. Of course I’ll leave this to the substantive discussion of that PDP on accuracy
Marie Pattullo
02:17:07
For the record: BC is comfortable with the proposal and wants it as soon as is practicable.
Marika Konings
02:17:49
John, your microphone doesn’t appear to be connected?
Terri Agnew
02:18:03
@John, you are unmuted and can hear you
Marie Pattullo
02:18:20
That's why it would be great to get a scoping team of experts together on accuracy, Tanya, so that when the PDP is kicked off we have the widest/most holistic list of things to consider.
Marie Pattullo
02:19:15
(Scoping team not just being councillors - all GNSO - and beyond - expertise needed!)
Tatiana Tropina
02:19:15
Marie, I personally have no problem with starting the scoping team on accuracy no matter what my opinion on accuracy is. My problem was with restarting EPDP asap.
John McElwaine
02:19:43
@Terri operator error.
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:19:47
Agree @marie
Terri Agnew
02:20:16
Glad audio worked eventually.
John McElwaine
02:24:02
old
Maxim Alzoba
02:25:44
nothing prevents IRP IOT members to apply and most probably they have better score in the selection process
Maxim Alzoba
02:26:00
than those who are not fluent with the process
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:26:19
Ok so it wasn't due to exclusionary criteria or anyting similar
Maxim Alzoba
02:27:09
qualifications - should be in the call of volunteers, and SSC just formally review applications and tries to find a consensus
Mary Wong
02:31:19
as always, it’s up to each community group how they gather feedback on the draft ToR from their members
Marie Pattullo
02:31:45
I'm with James here - I don't think the SSC is the right channel here.
Maxim Alzoba
02:32:19
why do we think that SSC can not do the formal selection?
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:32:50
Its not a skills/cv analysis kind of selection like the SSC does
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:32:55
Its much more nuaced than that
Maxim Alzoba
02:33:37
if the call for volunteers text is clear enough, it should not be an issue.
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:34:03
The people we appoint to make these selection for the board to consider will need to have a very complex and difficulat skillset.Totally disagree this is not a simple call for vol with a list of skills
Maxim Alzoba
02:34:28
if the group can not describe in words what is required - it is an issue
Marie Pattullo
02:34:53
+1 James. And don't think it's really Council's remit.
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:34:56
Yes exactly but not an issue just a reflection of the complexity
Maxim Alzoba
02:35:39
@Marie, is it an opinion supported by the reference to Bylaws or GNSO procedure?
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:36:36
Yes this is not an enumerated council role in the bylaws
Maxim Alzoba
02:39:33
3 weeks is a bad idea, what is going to be next time? 6 weeks?
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:40:04
50 weeks ICANN 70-2021 rolling meeting
Tatiana Tropina
02:40:34
It’s good that we have only 52 weeks a year so it won’t be more than that
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:40:50
I was giving us 2 weeks for Council SPS =)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:41:02
Yes number of days and blocks are spread out over 3 weeks but of course working in UTC+2 is still a challenge for sore remote participants in certain timezones… that has to be accounted for as well...
Tatiana Tropina
02:41:22
We know the pain now after KL meeting
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:41:37
noting the UTC+2 is only 2 weeks out of 3
Tatiana Tropina
02:41:45
So it’s a sort of shared pain that we own too (-ish)
Maxim Alzoba
02:41:53
it will help to compensate lack of flights to have the same jetlag
Marie Pattullo
02:41:56
Yep, and staring at a screen for 10+ hours just isn't the same as looking at actual humans.
Tatiana Tropina
02:42:17
Marie I am not sure actual humans exist anymore:(
Osvaldo Novoa
02:42:26
Sorry but I have to leave now.
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:42:32
says Tanya the jetsetter
Osvaldo Novoa
02:42:36
Bye all!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:42:47
++++ @Marie
Tatiana Tropina
02:43:14
James. Former jetsetter, me — can’t claim that anymore :)
Marie Pattullo
02:43:15
Or legs, Tanya. No one has legs. We exist from mid torso upwards.
Tatiana Tropina
02:43:25
Marie, oh that. Yes
James Gannon (NCSG)
02:43:31
Don't make me out your current location =)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:43:50
:-) I rarely get out of my slippers these days ;-)
Tatiana Tropina
02:44:00
:D no no. It doesn’t exist, James!
Tatiana Tropina
02:44:20
Cheryl. I’d say, months.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr
02:44:48
Bye for now
Maxim Alzoba
02:44:50
are we looking forward to see winter annual quarantine time?
Tatiana Tropina
02:44:52
Bye all
Maxim Alzoba
02:44:53
bye all
Farell Folly
02:44:55
thx
Philippe Fouquart
02:44:55
Thanks Keith, bye all.
Sebastien Ducos
02:44:56
Thanks all
Farell Folly
02:44:58
See you